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View Poll Results: Human Caused Climate Change is Real?
Yes 36 72.00%
No. It's a Hoax 11 22.00%
Jury Isn't In Yet 3 6.00%
Voters: 50. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-03-2019, 08:49 AM   #391
enorbet
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Dr. Patrick Michaels is somewhat problematic to the study of Climatology because he is actually well schooled in Climate (though lacking in interpreting computer models) yet he is almost singular in his stance opposing the concept and evidence of anthropogenic global climate change.. If he were among many actually educated experts in the field with such views it would be all but impossible to "write him off" for any reason. However he is not one among many and it has been researched and revealed, including his own admission that massive amounts of his income are from "Big Oil". He looks like a shill.

Here's just the tip of the iceberg from Wikipedia

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia - Dr. Patrick Michaels

Funding from energy or fossil fuel companies

On July 27, 2006 ABC News reported that a Colorado energy cooperative, the Intermountain Rural Electric Association, had given Michaels $100,000.[37] An Associated Press report said that the donations had been made after Michaels had "told Western business leaders ... that he was running out of money for his analyses of other scientists' global warming research" and noted that the cooperative had a vested interest in opposing mandatory carbon dioxide caps, a situation that raised conflict of interest concerns.[38]

Michaels acknowledged on CNN that 40 per cent of his funding came from the oil industry.[39] According to Fred Pearce, fossil fuel companies have helped fund Michaels' projects, including his World Climate Report, published every year since 1994, and his "advocacy science consulting firm", New Hope Environmental Services.[40]

A 2005 article published by the Seattle Times reported that Michaels had received more than $165,000 in fuel-industry funding, including money from the coal industry to publish his own climate journal
At the very least, I would take anything he says about Climate with a skeptical eye.
 
Old 03-03-2019, 11:01 AM   #392
mjolnir
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There are a tremendous number of variables to keep track of in our quest to see what effect changing climate will have on our lives but the one I decided to try to keep up with is rising CO2 and temp. levels and their effect on food production in the States.
It will be interesting to see how the most efficient food producing system in the World (U.S. Agriculture) waxes and wanes against steadily increasing temperatures and CO2 levels. I put together a yearly updated visualization of those variables juxtaposed to U.S. agricultural production of the main food crops for the World.
2018 at a glance.
Corn, peanuts and sweet potato were down slightly from last year while wheat, rice, oats, soybeans and sugarcane increased and sorghum stayed the same.
Potatoes set an all time harvest record.
2018 ranked 4th globally and 7th nationally in the top 10 hottest years on record. CO2 reached an all time high in ppm since the start of the Industrial Revolution.

Harvest data came from https://www.nass.usda.gov/Publicatio...s/croptr18.pdf

and:

http://www.nass.usda.gov/Publication...s/crop0219.pdf

CO2 data came from here: ftp://aftp.cmdl.noaa.gov/products/tr...nnmean_mlo.txt

Temperature data came from: https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/global/201813

and:

https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/national/201813

Visualization - Food Production vs. Rising Temp. & CO2 Levels
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

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Last edited by mjolnir; 03-03-2019 at 11:07 AM.
 
Old 03-04-2019, 10:22 AM   #393
KenJackson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
Dr. Patrick Michaels ... and it has been researched and revealed, including his own admission that massive amounts of his income are from "Big Oil". He looks like a shill.
...
At the very least, I would take anything he says about Climate with a skeptical eye.
I know it's common to question who pays a person when assessing their motives for what they say. But a person has to make a living. Consider a scientist who is thoroughly convinced the evidence reveals something different than is popularly believed. Who will be willing to pay him to pursue the truth as he understands it? He must work for companies that see things his way in order to be free to speak his mind.
 
Old 03-04-2019, 08:12 PM   #394
frankbell
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Something not ad hominem: Sea level rise is rendering farm land unusable in some areas because of the incursion of salt. This particular article discusses eastern North Carolina.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...295_story.html
 
Old 03-04-2019, 10:46 PM   #395
KenJackson
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Originally Posted by frankbell View Post
Something not ad hominem: Sea level rise is rendering farm land unusable in some areas because of the incursion of salt. This particular article discusses eastern North Carolina.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...295_story.html
From the article:
Quote:
This issue may be compounded by the slow sinking of North Carolina's coastal plain ...
Yeah. That might compound it. Or be the whole issue.

It was hard for me to read that article (because I refuse to turn off my ad-blocker for anyone) but I didn't see any mention of altitude above sea level. That would seem to be a crucial detail.

And there are two other factors I didn't see mentioned.

One is the affect of a growing population demanding more and more freshwater. When I lived in Virginia Beach, VA, the city water in neighboring Chesapeake was literally unpleasantly salty to the taste. They were drawing so much freshwater from the river that the ocean was backwashing upstream as far as the intake pipe. It was at emergency levels when I left in '87. I've always been curious how they solved it.

If growing population draws more and more freshwater that would have otherwise ended up in the groundwater pushing back against saltwater, then you'll see saltier and saltier groundwater. (Won't you?)

Second, they said, "... sea levels near Pamlico Sound are rising at a rate of 4.4 millimeters per year ..." Very interesting. Though if sea level is rising at Pamlico Sound, isn't it rising all over the globe by a similar amount? Perhaps it would be a nanometer more at the equator. But how much of this sea level rise is due to erosion?? You know some of it has to be because rivers all over the world are carrying silt out to sea. It seems disingenuous not to mention that.
 
Old 03-05-2019, 03:52 AM   #396
enorbet
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Hello again KenJackson. First I should mention that sea level increase is NOT the same all over because the Earth is not a perfect sphere. It is an oblate spheroid. Additionally gravity is not the same all over since it varies in proportion to mass, so for these reasons sea levels are not exactly the same all over. The rise though is proportional all over and is directly attributed to rising temperatures (observed and recorded) and melting ice, also observed and recorded. Please note that so much melting has occurred that, for example, there is now land exposed to the air on Baffin Island that hasn't seen light of day in over 40,000 years.

Like many conspiracy theories, supporters tend to focus on inconsequential and even false details that have no bearing on the whole. An example of this can be seen among those who actually believe the Apollo Moon landings were a hoax. They point out photos that don't look like they think they should look, despite having no frame of reference or relevant expertise, all the while ignoring the larger objective facts such as competing nation's radar tracking and the extremely precisely set laser reflectors whose exact locations are published publicly to be used by anyone, anywhere with the equipment to check and to use them.

The Moon landings are real and so is Anthropogenic Global Climate Change. It matters only slightly what is occurring in just North Carolina when globally it is observed and recorded that temperatures are rising at alarming rates, seas are rising due to massive ice melt while they are also losing oxygen, and considerable numbers of species of wildlife are threatened by predators and parasites invading areas that didn't used to support them. This isn't just happening in one isolated location but all over the world. This is real and while some changes will no doubt be beneficial, at least for some, others will will be catastrophic, and to many, everywhere.

Last edited by enorbet; 03-05-2019 at 03:54 AM.
 
Old 03-06-2019, 09:21 PM   #397
Mill J
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Ok I've been out of this thread for a long time so... has this video been mentioned yet? https://youtu.be/vpTHi7O66pI

I'm curious what you guys think.
 
Old 03-06-2019, 09:26 PM   #398
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Another story of salt water incursion due to sea level rise due to climate change crossed my electronic desk this morning:

https://www.philly.com/science/clima...-20181211.html
 
Old 03-07-2019, 07:48 AM   #399
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Arrow

Through a plant's demise there are plenty of cancers; we just maybe one(?) stop having babies,,, learn if u can‽‽‽

https://www.linuxquestions.org/quest...ml#post5953335

Last edited by jamison20000e; 03-07-2019 at 07:51 AM.
 
Old 03-07-2019, 09:52 AM   #400
enorbet
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I just got around to viewing Mill J's linked video in an above post and I think it is very good. Thank you, Mill J, that was an excellent Ted Talk that holds considerable hope that we can employ a range of methods that can not only reverse climate instability but also improve the quality of life globally.

This is exactly why I started this thread. It is my opinion that we need to be looking in many areas for a comprehensive solution to improve our lot. We cannot possibly do this as long as many, caught up in economically dependent agendas that benefit just a few of us, continue to spread FUD denying there is any growing problem in the first place. This is especially true when those few are extremely wealthy and powerful and heavily influence both public opinion and legislation.

The root cause of our major threats is simply that there are so many of us. If we don't manage our "Home Economics" to support our growing population surely War and pestilence will simply reduce our numbers. Since that reduction may include my or your families, or at the very least make life for the survivors hellish, doesn't it make sense to begin looking at truly global issues that literally affect us all? We are actually all "in the same Boat".

Last edited by enorbet; 03-07-2019 at 09:55 AM.
 
Old 03-07-2019, 10:42 AM   #401
Mill J
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
I just got around to viewing Mill J's linked video in an above post and I think it is very good. Thank you, Mill J, that was an excellent Ted Talk that holds considerable hope that we can employ a range of methods that can not only reverse climate instability but also improve the quality of life globally.

This is exactly why I started this thread. It is my opinion that we need to be looking in many areas for a comprehensive solution to improve our lot. We cannot possibly do this as long as many, caught up in economically dependent agendas that benefit just a few of us, continue to spread FUD denying there is any growing problem in the first place. This is especially true when those few are extremely wealthy and powerful and heavily influence both public opinion and legislation.

The root cause of our major threats is simply that there are so many of us. If we don't manage our "Home Economics" to support our growing population surely War and pestilence will simply reduce our numbers. Since that reduction may include my or your families, or at the very least make life for the survivors hellish, doesn't it make sense to begin looking at truly global issues that literally affect us all? We are actually all "in the same Boat".
I'm glad we can finally agree on something That video reinforces what I mentioned earlier in this thread. The biggest problem IS modern farming. Dead soil holds almost no carbon or water.

From my personal experience of building topsoil on a hard clay section of land required the use of animals (pigs, cows, chickens, etc) and absolutely NO chemicals. That video not only proves that cows don't create "global warming" but also that they are one of the only ways left to fix it.

If you really want to educate yourself in sustainable farming. Research rotational grazing, no-till, permaculture, and cover crops. Some people who have had great success with these methods are Sepp Holzer(Austria), Joel Salatin(Shenandoah Valley), Greg Judy(Missouri), Mark Sheppard, and many others. Even if you don't intend to farm I'd still highly recommend their books or seeing them in a conference. Then share your knowledge.


And I read somewhere that if all the people in the world stood shoulder to should, they would only fill half of Rhode Island. Go figure...
 
Old 03-07-2019, 03:19 PM   #402
enorbet
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On a commercial scale I've only ever farmed alfalfa and oats, all sold for livestock feed. I do miss it. There's something incredibly satisfying, bordering on spiritual, watching a field "come alive" because of your own attention and efforts. Alfalfa is a soil enriching plant as I expect you know, Mill J, so that's good too. BTW I am aware of the numbers of cattle in the world and that they do create a significant amount of "natural gas" (I used to have a methane composter when I lived on 140 acres of farmland) but I am also aware that they are actually a net benefit. This is another area where some group's political agenda blinds them to all the facts, so they only see the part they like. All of those, on both sides, are contributing to the danger.
 
Old 05-06-2019, 03:30 PM   #403
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My perspective on the media seems to be allowed to be here, and I do not blame hillbillies.
Capitalism isn't without issues, and issues with media funding becoming a bigger concern. For example, former MSNBC employee William Arkin (and Phil Donahue) criticized the pro-war bias of the mainstream media. Personally I am similarly concerned about their coverage of security issues. Although silicon valley provides much of the funding for left-wing politicians and news outlets, cybersecurity is treated as national threat, which feeds into our defense spending, but rarely as a personal threat. I suppose complicated issues are bought as easily as are the geographically distant issues. Whenever the public doesn't know any better, there will be somebody in power who will pay big bucks to spoonfeed a particular narrative.
Oddly, I think the right-leaning country folk would have more direct exposure to the condition of the ecosystem. I suppose it is only a matter of time.

Last edited by catatom; 05-06-2019 at 03:49 PM. Reason: Phil Donahue
 
Old 05-07-2019, 09:10 PM   #404
enorbet
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Regarding awareness of the ecosystem we are all a bit myopic. I have lived in Washington DC and other metropolitan areas and I have lived 5 miles outside of a town whose population was 180 in Colorado and I was born in a small farming area in upstate New York. You could say I have gotten around ; ^ ). Few do that. Most of my high school buddies still live and work within a few miles of where they were born.

While in Colorado I took a job milking cows which suited me well since more than 2 of my relatives owned Dairy Farms and with working hours early morning and early evening that gave me daylight free time to build my own ranch/farm. My employer had a funny poster in the Dairy Barn entitled EPA Cowboy which depicted a mounted cowboy encumbered by a Rube Goldberg array of dubious safety devices. It was actually both creative and funny but when I mentioned to my employer that despite their sometimes lack of understanding of what is needed and practical there is a need for something like the EPA and they had done a lot of good. I told him about the Orange Air around St Louis a few years back and how the residents were all wearing doctor's masks outside as well as the fact that the river in Cleveland had actually caught fire several times and with that last one his jaw dropped and his eyes popped. Colorado is so dry that water is like gold and he couldn't begin to imagine that a river could catch fire or that people would allow that condition to begin let alone continue.

It takes time and communication to see outside our own small purvey and that's exactly why I created this thread. I'm very pleased that we have so many different points of view here. Maybe we can all gain something from each other. I certainly hope so or we could possibly join a long list of civilizations destroyed or altered beyond recognition by failking to see and/or act on developing conditions, whatever form they may take.
 
Old 08-10-2019, 07:03 AM   #405
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I've noticed for some time now: the lay-of-the-land really changes when you work, even a few years next to a city dump... we're building mountains!

I love how they put the pond next to it trying to prove how healthy it is, with testing and whatnot; for now!

Keep having babies, recycling is pointless!
 
  


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