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Old 03-19-2016, 06:46 AM   #1
enorbet
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Human-Caused Global Climate Change


Yeah I know... likely flamebait. Oh well, hopefully the bulk of that can be avoided. I'm starting this thread, in fact, because in a totally unrelated thread here a couple of responders casually mentioned as fact, that the subject is utter BS.

It seems to me there are two main ways to approach a question of technological Truth. One, we can consult experts in the field. Unfortunately deniers, many of whom are directly funded by Big Oil interests, convince others that scientists have a great deal of money at stake, compromising their truthfulness. Many accept this despite the simple fact that scientists, especially research scientists, exist on payscales far below even middle management at Oil companies. oil companies have far more invested and up for possible loss than scientists have to gain... not to mention that a scientist depends on his track record of accuracy to even remain employable, while those in oil answer only to their stockholders who bank on the continued flow of the bucks.

Men, some mere students, have been monitoring ice sheet drill cores for longterm climate history as well as sheet and glacier melt rates for many years. Now precise instrumentation both ground-based and satellite monitor such things.

The remarkable thing is that the loss of ice exceeds even the most radical tree-hugger claims of 20 years ago. Among the Scientific Community, subject to extreme peer review, it is progressively accepted as a simple fact that Human Caused Global Climate Change is occurring.

The number 2 way to examine such prospects is to eschew any expert advice and try to extrapolate from older, more diverse and general knowledge, what is most likely. It seems to me a simple matter to consider that up until around 1900 the bulk of particulate matter and greenhouse gasses in our atmosphere came from Nature, most notably volcanos.

Sometime around 1950 humans exceeded volcanoes. Now we produce more than 10 times that of all the volcanoes on Planet Earth - Billions of metric tons annually and continuously. So you have to ask yourself.... Do you suppose billions of additional tons continuously thrust into our atmosphere for over 100 years has had no effect? Not very likely, is it?

When you combine the two the conclusion should be obvious. It is a fact that humans have altered global climate and there will be consequences. Exactly when and how bad might be up for grabs to a degree, but the truth of the underlying cause and need for some concern and action should be obvious by now.

Please, if you feel like posting a response, do your research among scholarly papers not just any social hack on YouTube.
 
Old 03-19-2016, 10:16 AM   #2
MensaWater
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Why do I think I'll never see this thread marked as "Solved"?

Last edited by MensaWater; 03-19-2016 at 10:17 AM.
 
Old 03-19-2016, 11:30 AM   #3
enorbet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MensaWater View Post
Why do I think I'll never see this thread marked as "Solved"?
Ha Ha! True! as it is likely I will be long dead before sea level rises enough to be undeniable. My children, unfortunately, will likely see it.

Some living far from the sea may take longer to be convinced just because most people are short-sighted or provincial. I worked for a time for a rancher in the Colorado mountains where water is exceptionally precious and one day I laughed at a comic poster he had in his milk barn, a caricature of what a cowboy would look like if he complied with EPA regs. Naturally he made a comment that EPA should be disbanded and I pointed out that despite failings in some areas they have great importance in others. He snapped, "Where!?!" When I told him there are rivers in North America that have actually caught fire because they are so polluted, it took him a long time to digest that fact, that humans anywhere would be so disrespectful and wanton about such an important component of Life and let it go so far. I suspect many will suffer similar considerable consternation when it becomes obvious things involving humans just aren't that simple.
 
Old 03-19-2016, 11:54 AM   #4
jbuckley2004
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Hum. Science will never be "solved" I guess.
Enorbet, there are a few assumptions in your post that need to be examined. For one, the big money funding climate research is not being spent by "Big Oil Interests". It's being spent by "Big Government", that is, politicians with an agenda. Having seen it up close (and personal, as they say), I can vouch that a research scientist spends far more time and resources writing proposals to get government grant money than he spends doing science, and right now, grants are only given in support of the anthropic global warming conclusion. That's especially true in academia, more than in government offices. [What??? You say science should come BEFORE the conclusion??? What a radical notion! Government is only paying for the results, not the science.]

Second, from http://www.pnas.org/content/97/4/1331.full
"As the world slid into and out of the last ice age, the general cooling and warming trends were punctuated by abrupt changes. Climate shifts up to half as large as the entire difference between ice age and modern conditions occurred over hemispheric or broader regions in mere years to decades. Such abrupt changes have been absent during the few key millennia when agriculture and industry have arisen."

That's just one representative quote; the gist of it can be found in many places using your google machine. Interpretations of ice core studies easily encompass the idea that the changes studied intensely for the past two decades are well within norms established to have occurred in the millennia since the last ice age. Those interpretations aren't touted by the news media, though.

And before you say that we're experiencing the warmest winter ever right now, I will say exactly that to myself as I watch the snowfall predicted for my DC suburban home tonight.

There! That's how you write flame-bait, my friend.
 
Old 03-19-2016, 12:16 PM   #5
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1plPyJdXKIY (Warren G - Regulate ft. Nate Dogg)

Not as ironically and no puns: regulators mount up!

Rock Master Scott and The Dynamic Three - The Roof Is On Fire
https://youtu.be/9qVz0aUXLEA

Whoops wrong thread is there one on over population♪

Last edited by jamison20000e; 03-19-2016 at 12:18 PM.
 
Old 03-19-2016, 12:24 PM   #6
ugjka
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What caused humans is what caused global warming. What caused global warming is what caused humans. Go figure!
 
Old 03-19-2016, 12:40 PM   #7
jamison20000e
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Seeds in the wind but with a firm grasp on photosynthesis!

https://soundcloud.com/pacman-mic-ma...sis-ximik-prod
 
Old 03-19-2016, 03:17 PM   #8
rokytnji
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My local solution for a number of issues. After the shop is done. I will take all my used lumber and build one on a bigger scale that will deliver all the water I need in my 5 gallon igloo water jug in one day.

I live in 115F summers away from the beaches. I have beach sand all around me though.

To the naysayers of global warming. No. You cannot drink out of my igloo.

http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...r-still-36120/

Presently. It costs a dollar for 5 gallons or ro water from one of those street corner vending machines.
Later. As prices rises.

I will still be getting mine for free.

(Water table is 15 feet -salty- at that depth in the permian basin where I live.)
 
Old 03-19-2016, 04:21 PM   #9
YesItsMe
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Since the beginning of Earth's life, there have been climate changes.
Don't think you can change it.
 
Old 03-19-2016, 04:27 PM   #10
jamison20000e
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We can destroy it! Maybe leave it or see past a few generations?

http://prettylightsmusic.com/

Last edited by jamison20000e; 03-19-2016 at 04:30 PM.
 
Old 03-19-2016, 05:18 PM   #11
enorbet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuckley2004 View Post
Hum. Science will never be "solved" I guess.
Enorbet, there are a few assumptions in your post that need to be examined. For one, the big money funding climate research is not being spent by "Big Oil Interests".
<snip>
. Interpretations of ice core studies easily encompass the idea that the changes studied intensely for the past two decades are well within norms established to have occurred in the millennia since the last ice age. Those interpretations aren't touted by the news media, though.

And before you say that we're experiencing the warmest winter ever right now, I will say exactly that to myself as I watch the snowfall predicted for my DC suburban home tonight.

There! That's how you write flame-bait, my friend.
True enough that Science is a process rather than a conclusion. A friend of mine designs and manufacturers guitar pickups and was remarking about how so many tried to duplicate the Gibson Patent Applied For humbuckers and they all sound different. I stupidly said "How hard can it be? They're just a magnet with wire wrapped around them." He wisely responded, "You can spend your whole lifetime studying wire, or metal, or magnetism." Perhaps a major breakthrough can/will occur once, if it is even possible, we manage to understand why there seems to be a conflict between Relativity and Quantum Mechanics, but certainly until that day we have but good odds, different on different scales and don't understand important fundamentals.

My apologies for not being clearer since I in no way intended to imply Big Oil was funding climate research. They barely care. They prefer "business as usual" since they are so heavily invested in Oil, one of the major causes of greenhouse gasses.

I'm not at all sure what you are trying to say, especially with the comment about "warmest winter". The term "Global Climate Change" was coined exactly because "warming is too general. Locally there will be many differences with some locations cooler than before, assuming we never hit that threshold (around +6C avg. iirc) where undersea hydrates release massive amounts of methane.

I'm aware that many scientists find themselves in the money chase but that doesn't explain the arctic ice sheet dropping a block of ice the size of Denmark into the sea in 1998 nor the massive losses in the Ross Ice Shelf or glaciers all over the world. That has zero to do with any HCGCC agenda or funding.

Since it is known that a single volcano can change local weather for decades it makes sense to me that 10X the amount of all volcanoes must also have an effect, and since it never stops (so far) it is cumulative.

Therefore it seems prudent to assume we are capable of creating problems for ourselves (The Earth will be just fine with or without us or any Life) and that at the very least it is wise to monitor changes closely and predict effects. It is just too risky to align with Big Oil (excepting if you own a large block of stock) and deny it even can happen.

Last edited by enorbet; 03-19-2016 at 05:20 PM.
 
Old 03-19-2016, 05:39 PM   #12
jamison20000e
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Power comes more than one way, from thin air but wouldn't make money like water. You could set up a water farm Rokytnji...

We now shape on a global scales that's not rocket science!

how-old-is-earth
how-long-have-humans-been-on-earth

films-about-water-contamination-oscar-sunday/ okay this is definitely the wrong thread.
 
Old 03-19-2016, 08:35 PM   #13
rokytnji
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Shoot. We are changing the ph balance of the oceans. When the plankton dies. Times will get interesting.

http://ocean.nationalgeographic.com/...acidification/

Edit: Science has a scientific term for something similar happening million of years ago. It is called.

The Big Die Off

Last edited by rokytnji; 03-19-2016 at 08:39 PM.
 
Old 03-19-2016, 08:44 PM   #14
John VV
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there is one way to mark this thread as solved

remove 2/3 of the world population
2 billion people is sustainable ( this could be bumped to 3 billion )
 
Old 03-19-2016, 08:55 PM   #15
jamison20000e
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Such an optimist...

ガンバン・スリン(バリ島)
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