The Faith & Religion mega Thread

Originally Posted by MrCode what is all of existence but a massively complex program?

Must be one hell of a programmer who wrote it, eh? All the events in history? All the thoughts, feelings, and actions of everyone that's ever lived? All the scientific discoveries, the advances in technology, all the creations in the arts: literature, painting and sculpture, and music? All preordained, all part of this massively complex program? Makes the linux kernel look like an elementary "hello world!" effort.

Originally Posted by MrCode I hate to necro-bump this thread, but I think I've finally come to a conclusion as to what my "beliefs" are: everything is meaningless. Seriously. Think about it: what is all of existence but a massively complex program? What is life other than a massive chemical reaction? Think about this seriously and from a wider perspective before objecting. In the end, nothing we do really means anything...it's all part of some pointless game of "survival" wherein some carbon-based blobs of matter self-equalize themselves just so they can continue to *exist* in their current state, with some changes here and there to make their self-equalization process more efficient. Don't argue back with "what about love and genuine caring?" or other such things, either, because those are all just a part of that self-equalization game, nothing more. entz was right...I'm just a depressed, lonely, miserable idiot who only wants to believe in things "beyond the physical" because it makes me "feel good". Our existence is meaningless. All events are effectively a result of circumstance (choice does not exist/is an illusion). All concepts of an "afterlife" or "reincarnation" are pointless superstition (just more pointless fodder for the imagination...did I mention that imagination is just as meaningless? ...all a part of the pointless evolutionary game we play here on this planet...) Let the games begin (again).

Oh dear god, not again!

Originally Posted by brianL Must be one hell of a programmer who wrote it, eh? All the events in history? All the thoughts, feelings, and actions of everyone that's ever lived? All the scientific discoveries, the advances in technology, all the creations in the arts: literature, painting and sculpture, and music? All preordained, all part of this massively complex program? Makes the linux kernel look like an elementary "hello world!" effort.

http://xkcd.com/224/

Originally Posted by easuter http://xkcd.com/224/

LOL

Well if you haven't yet seen Monty Python's The Meaning of Life, I do recommend picking up a copy, and watch it. They do a very good job .

The intro song alone, is worth it.

Originally Posted by brianL Must be one hell of a programmer who wrote it, eh? All the events in history? All the thoughts, feelings, and actions of everyone that's ever lived? All the scientific discoveries, the advances in technology, all the creations in the arts: literature, painting and sculpture, and music? All preordained, all part of this massively complex program? Makes the linux kernel look like an elementary "hello world!" effort.

I guess I never think about things like this...I'm too stuck in "all-of-existence-can-be-described-with-equations" mode to even go there, but I suppose this is an interesting point. But I suppose you could counter with chaos theory: the beginning of the universe was the "seed" for our existence, but yeah, I'm starting to try shooting down your argument when I don't even know a whole lot about chaos theory myself, so...

Originally Posted by easuter Oh dear god, not again!

Perhaps I should just take a break from LQ for a while...no, make that the internet. I've spent too much time trying to find the answers to my questions from random, sometimes rather obscure places on the internet (and others not so obscure, but not always reliable), when what I think I really need to be doing is experiencing these things firsthand to get a better idea of what it all really is. I keep trying to intellectualize the world when I haven't experienced firsthand much of what I read.

I will say that your xkcd link made me chuckle a little, though, so I feel a little better now.

Seriously though, don't be surprised if you don't see me post here for a while...I'm becoming a troll, and I need to break out of this whole "the universe is meaningless and everything is predetermined" thought cycle that I've gotten myself into.

I may track this thread for a response or two to this post, but after that, I'm just gonna quit for a while and get some perspective. I don't think I've really decided that the universe is meaningless; I still have some hope...at least I think.

Are you quitting LQ for a while because you choose to, or have you been predestined to do so at this precise time by The Great Programmer?

No mention of JR Dobbs or the church of the sub genius... this is undoubtedly the work of the devil... ! LOL

Praise BOB!!!
Let us all pray for MrCode, that he may be relieved from his Slackless torment. Amen.

Firm believer growing up, then uncertain believer, then sort of agnostic, then just not religious. Now I am happy to be back to being a firm believer.

Originally Posted by MrCode I hate to necro-bump this thread, but I think I've finally come to a conclusion as to what my "beliefs" are: everything is meaningless. Seriously. Think about it: what is all of existence but a massively complex program? What is life other than a massive chemical reaction? Think about this seriously and from a wider perspective before objecting.

You're one of the few atheists I've encountered who has the guts to admit this.

I find that life is indeed a massive chemical reaction. Unlike most Christians I am a firm proponent of evolution. Yet, to me, life is far from meaningless. There's more going on behind the scenes.

Good luck to you. I hope you find what you are looking for.

You're one of the few atheists I've encountered who has the guts to admit this.

The thing is, I don't know what I am...I don't know if I'm atheist or whatever. All I know is that I'm confused.

I find that life is indeed a massive chemical reaction.

Well then, how does that not make life meaningless? If life is nothing more than a chemical reaction, to me that means that a) everything is predetermined (there is no room for "freedom" in a chemical reaction), and b) life is pointless (because of (a), everything is basically a result of happenstance, therefore all talents, mistakes, good deeds, bad deeds, etc. are all meaningless). That's what gets to me.

Anyway, I broke my promise by responding here. This time I'm really going away...at least I think, if I can resist the urge to come looking back here for someone giving me a proverbial pat on the back and saying "everything's gonna be okay".

Well, MrCode gets my respect for at least thinking about things (unlike others ...). The only problem is it takes a lot of clear thinking completely away from the box (not inside, not outside, not even near the box) to get close to the truth .... that's MrCode's problem. You're asking the wrong questions, questions that have no answer.

Here, let me throw you some bread crumbs:

What if the universe did not begin / created, and will not end ? What if it was always here ?

Meaning of life / the universe ? That's for you to decide, there is no objective "meaning", you decide what the meaning is, if you decide it is none, then it is none. What other meaning could there be ? To serve a "greater purpose" a "greater deity" for whom there is no proof nor reason to exist ? Or just to do what you want to do and accomplish what you want to accomplish ? No, there is no objective / global / general meaning, but you can assign a meaning or purpose if you want to. There is no need for a meaning, the universe just exists, life just is ... take it as it is. Why try to dig so deep into a lake that is so clear you can see the bottom ... you will only make it muddy and brown.

Ok, maybe that was like a slice of bread, not a bread crumb...

Originally Posted by MrCode The thing is, I don't know what I am...I don't know if I'm atheist or whatever. All I know is that I'm confused.

I've had my own struggles with the overpowering feelings of confusion with regards to the Bigger Picture. And we aren't the only two, either:

Man's fate is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath; man has no advantage over the animal. Everything is meaningless.

Ecclesiastes 3:19, straight out of the Bible.

Originally Posted by MrCode Well then, how does that not make life meaningless? If life is nothing more than a chemical reaction, to me that means that a) everything is predetermined (there is no room for "freedom" in a chemical reaction), and b) life is pointless (because of (a), everything is basically a result of happenstance, therefore all talents, mistakes, good deeds, bad deeds, etc. are all meaningless). That's what gets to me.

Who says every chemical reaction just moves in a linear fashion along a single timeline? Perhaps there is an infinite number of timelines, and an infinite God who can move and affect them...

Originally Posted by MrCode Anyway, I broke my promise by responding here. This time I'm really going away...at least I think, if I can resist the urge to come looking back here for someone giving me a proverbial pat on the back and saying "everything's gonna be okay".

Everything is going to be okay. Naturalism on its current scale is a brief phenomenon in light of humanity's vast history rich with spirituality and unique religious beliefs. I find that these are not superstitions born of ignorance; indeed, the more science discovers, the more I believe in God. I think men like Robert T. Bakker would agree with me-- Robert is a staunch defender of evolution, legend in the field of paleontology, and a Pentecostal preacher.

My non-religous status was shaken when I moved into my current apartment, which was once an emergency room. Interesting things happen here. All I can say is I know there is more to it than this, and I believe it is good.

At any rate, you won't find the answer to the meaning of life on an internet forum, you will find it in you. Take a break from this stuff for a while. Enjoy the present. Go have some fun.

I think I'm somewhere between atheism and agnosticism. I don't deny the existence of God (or Gods), but I find it very hard to believe he/she/it really exists (as a living, conscious entity)... That said, I do believe there are sacred things such as life, Nature, the Earth and the Universe itself, as well as the forces that govern them.

Nature, the Earth and the Universe itself, as well as the forces that govern them.

I apologize if this seems dumb, but my problem has gotten so bad that any time I read something like this, a quote pops into my mind that's stuck in my head for what is probably going to be a long time, unless I can get over this whole existentialism-free-will-vs-determinism thing:

Originally Posted by cantab The thing is you couldn't have chosen otherwise. "choice" as an action is an illusion. What you did was determined by the physical behaviour of your brain.

^ That is hand-written, from memory, verbatim. Check the thread if you don't believe me. IIRC the post with this quote is the first one on page 3. The only reason I don't go back and cut-paste it from the actual post is because I'm too damn chicken to go back to it; it practically scarred me, and it's something I almost unconsciously repeat to myself any time I get into one of these predicaments, which of course makes me miserable.

And, seeing as how that particular member is a semi-frequent visitor to /General (or so I've noticed), I won't be surprised in the least if he sees this post and only comes back to reinforce the quoted statement...

It's sad, seriously: I even checked to see if he was online before I made this post.