Regarding KDE specifically ..

A recent poll here on LQ's Slackware forum indicated that most Slackware users don't use KDE.

If it's unnecessary, that would be a point in favor of dropping KDE.

AlienBob has stated that if Slackware dropped KDE, he would likely stop participating in the Slackware project. That would mean losing his multilib and VLC packages, and losing his help in potential future needs.

That's a huge point against dropping KDE. Absent other skilled users picking these things up, Slackware needs AlienBob's ongoing participation (IMO).

If Patrick decides he doesn't want to lose AlienBob and the fraction of Slackware users who depend on KDE, but something has to go, it would help to know which other packages take up most of his time. Right now we don't even know which packages are handled largely by others on the Slackware team (rworkman, etc).

Absent this information, we cannot make informed suggestions on what could be cut to reduce Patrick's load.

Alternatively, if there were a skilled Slackware user who could take over the bulk of the KDE work, so that Patrick just has to check their work before adding it to -current, that would free him up for other tasks without having to drop any packages.

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I guess you are referring to https://www.linuxquestions.org/quest...ch-4175632912/

The question in that poll was having trouble deciding between Xfce and KDE Plasma. If you use a DE, which do you prefer on Slackware? Which is "better supported"?. Note that this does not ask who is using KDE4. The outcome of the poll was:

• 22.76% - Plasma5
• 35.77% - XFCE
• 41.46% - No, I rather use a WM or sth else (fluxbox etc.)

I don't think that nearly a quarter of all Slackware users count as insignificant. And note that Plasma5 is not even part of Slackware, so the poll is not reflecting actual usage ratios anyway.

I have been doing exactly this for the past 10 years. So what's your issue with that?

I don't think it's insignificant either.

My interpretation, and that of at least some other participants in the poll, interpreted "KDE Plasma" as "KDE / Plasma", KDE -or- Plasma. Perhaps this is in error, and another poll can help settle the ambiguity.

I did not know you had been shouldering the bulk of KDE4 responsibilities. This of course renders that entire line of reasoning in my post invalid.

I apologize for slighting your KDE4 efforts. It was unintentional.

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And that's about as scientific as polling gets I reckon.

Sarcasm aside, I think the notion of dropping KDE from Slackware is--er--less than well thought out. Whether or not one uses KDE as a desktop environment, the KDE suite of applications is at the core of Slackware.

I may not use KDE on Slackware very often, but I do use it from time to time, and I use KDE applications daily; I also use KDE on Debian (Plasma) and on Mageia regularly. KDE is a fine piece of work.

XFCE is an okay desktop, but its applications do not stand up to KDE applications any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

And FVWM? Don't make me laugh.

Furrfu.

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Regarding that thread, I made the same mistake like you - that's about Plasma5, but I was harshly corrected that's all about KDE4 which is included now in Slackware. Like clarified several people including @bassmadrigal

From what I know, you have at least those certain effective Plasma5 users: myself (who wish it to burn in fire), @RadicalDreamer (who's happy with it), @ZhaoLin1457 (who started already to build an useful tool which is thoughtful named plasma5cleaner) and @Poprocks who done a Dogeza already for his mistakes. And of course, you.

Maybe there are some other souls around messing with that abomination, but I do not think they represents a quarter from Slackware users anyway. I for one, I will go for a grand total of 10 including you.

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I don't think abomination accurately describes the hard work Eric has done in packaging KDE. I personally am against using KDE on my own systems. Every once in a while I install ktown to see how it is progressing and will admit it has improved as it has matured. Call me a purist but I believe in one application per task. KDE has never been about that ideology and suffers from feature bloat. I am usually forced to disable file search and indexing because it is so broken. The only applications I consider useful are Ktorrent, konsole, and ksysguard. There is simply better software when you consider what KDE ships. Alternatives that are already installed in Slackware or that are easily obtained from SlackBuilds.org are better options. That is the main reason I never was too interested in KDE. LXDE or LXQT appeal to me more than KDE DE.

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this things could be omitted from the build, like PIM/akonaid, its just that everyone ships KDE with everything

some base functionality and a hand full of apps, yes. this is how my KDE is configured and worked, and there is no bloat
problem, the base and the handful are different for everyone

I have a great respect for Eric Hameleers and I believe he's a great packages builder, even in his Plasma5 builds I believe that he done a brilliant job.

However, I consider that Plasma5 as software itself as being an uber-bloated abomination.

And I strongly believe that there is no need for us to transform the Slackware in Plasmaware even from a vague marketing point, because there's already their own dedicated distribution: KDE NEON https://neon.kde.org/

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Well, it has not even made to Slackware yet. And even if it does, no one forces anyone to use KDE, right?

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LINK plz !

Continue to insist on reading this very thread, young Padawan! Your wished link will be revealed.

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Most Slackware users aren't even aware that LQ forum exists, that Patrick writes/reads in it and that sometimes some relevant decisions related to the distribution are taken in it.

Me myself, I use Slackware since 1997 and I randomly discovered LQ forum in 2010, just because I was looking for some help, and then I noticed a post by volkerdi and so I realized that he posts here.

If you want a statistic that can be considered significant of the opinion of most Slackware users you should begin with announcing it on the official website and in the changelog.
Or, at least, post on the official website for addressing people to LQ Forum.

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I'd like to add my grain of salt here. Take a few steps back and try to get the bigger picture.

Why has Slackware been such a huge success back in the 90s? Because it clearly served a purpose, by allowing folks to easily install Linux on their computers. Before Slackware, you had the buggy SLS, or you had to resort to boot & root floppies and then build all the stuff manually by yourself.

And why did folks want to install Linux on their computers? Because back then, Unix was the best OS, but a licence for a UNIX workstation was several thousand dollars. Not to mention the relatively expensive hardware you needed to run such a beast. The only other alternative was MS-DOS, the seven-floppy-install that was shipping with nearly every PC at the time.

So, Slackware met a dear need back then.

If I may be so bold, I'd like to ask a blunt question. Or rather, two blunt questions. First, what is Slackware's focus today? And what is its target audience? I know the answer, because Patrick has very eloquently answered it here a few years back. But is this really the answer?

When you're a small company (like Slackware), the best thing you can do is identify a niche market and then become the leader in that niche. Consequently, the worst thing you can do is trying desperately to be everything to everyone.

I know a guy who noticed there are two places in the world where you can find baby parrots (very expensive birds) easily: the Açores and Hawaii. The first are part of Europe, the latter is a part of the US, so no restrictive quarantine laws. He found there was a bad need for something, and to make a long story short, he became the world leader for incubators for baby parrots (because their eggs are extremely fragile). And now he lives three months in the Açores, three months in Hawaii, and the rest of the time, he goes skiing in the European Alps or whatever he likes. I guess you see my point. Identify a very special need, and then simply respond to that. Become the world leader in baby parrot incubators, for what it's worth.

Another example, from my own company. Back in 2009 when I created it and folks asked me "Who are your clients?", I responded something like "Well, erm, folks who would like to use Linux, I guess." Now, almost ten years later, I will answer something like "Schools who would like to control the way their students use the Internet. Lawyers with a need for secure storage of sensitive documents. Geophysicists who need workstations that just work."

I can only ask these questions, but it's up to Pat to answer them. Because as far as I can tell, Slackware in its current state tries to be too many things to everyone, and this is usually a bad sign.

Find that niche. Find that need that Slackware is the answer to. And then stick to it.

Cheers from the hot South of France,

Niki

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You only kep repeating your mantra because you that Americans fall for repetition... if you repeat a falsehood often enough people will start thinking it must be true after all or else why would this person keep repeating it?

If I wanted to use Ubuntu with Plasma5, I would probably switch to KDE Neon. However, I want to use Slackware with Plasma5. You should stop writing these FUD statements.

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