Read again for the safety issues. Do YOU know there IS such things called Application cracking,Network cracking etc. BUT, BUT the ULTIMATE PRO LEVEL is HARDWARE CRACKING.

I bet you dont know these so you asked such type of question.

Consoles? Well that is a personal choice and I bet 90% of the people who Windows wont really agree with this statement that using game consoles to replace PC games. IT is always to have the best of both worlds while the PC game is more interactive, bigger social circles, rather than a console that's limited to at most 4 people play at once.

No- Flash is not the ultimate reason for PC as Macs also support flash. But whether flash,Java or shockwave, none of them are silly. They make life more interesting. Without them, I bet you'd save your money and get a 286 PC using DOS would be better.

Command Prompt is already outdated and true silly. No Computers except Linux uses Terminal anymore in most administrative task including installing. In Linux, if you want to get the latest version of software (Eg: Latest Firefox on Ubuntu 6.06, you cant expect it on repository but terminal, and break your system, especially the novice.)

Out of fun, let's comment a bit.

Macs are "pc"s too - Personal Computers. They just happen to have an apple on top of them.

Yeah, sure..snowboarding at mountains or sailing at sea is what makes life more interesting. Watching a dummy Flash on the net doesn't. If you consider it "interesting", have you ever tried to open the curtains to find out there's a world outside your computer?

Miss. I don't remember seeing an operating system for a while that didn't contain a command prompt. Windows has (actually, if you wreck it up, it's "Recovery Console" is a command prompt - all you have left when the OS breaks up), Mac OS X has, Linux has, Unix' have. I don't know many machines that would boot out of graphical environment - all of them have roots in bits and bytes, and the low level programs usually don't have a graphical interface. Usually the graphical interface is used just to make the user feel good, and that is at the later end of the boot process. Command line works faster, especially remotely, and sometimes is the only way of connecting (because a one-line or two-line screen is hard to use if you're forced to have it "graphical").

I didn't quite grasp the deepest idea of that, but just to mention, if you want the latest Firefox, just head to Mozilla's graphical website, download their package (graphically), open it with a graphical packaging tool, extract it to a directory you select graphically and run it by double-clicking on the icon. Or just run one command to install, anotherone to launch it - quite a bit faster. Downloading works that way too, you don't have to see the site to get the file.

In addition many of the real world servers, including those you use daily with your non-command line apps, are UNIX servers, and the ideal way to run such a server (when nobody has to watch it 24/7) is to have no graphical interface - a graphical server such as X - running, but instead have a "minimal" interface to it: a command line. X server, for example, eats up resources, so it's easier for the server not to run it. If you want to have things done the fast way, you might want to use command line, or if you don't know how to do them, you're going to have to work with graphical windows The fact that Windows and Mac users are drawn away from text-based computing doesn't mean it's obsolete or silly - it just proves that those two operating systems tend to drive the user away from powerful tools.

Somebody here (at LQ) said that we first learn to draw and like to look at pictures, and when we grow older and gain more knowledge and skills, learn to read and write and work with texts. Well said.

Have fun

I'm interested to see how this "hardware cracking" works for "real" hackers. I mean, if I see a guy show up on my doorstep with a soldering gun and some schematics, it wouldn't be exactly "stealth". =)

Consider this: if I have a Pentium Pro machine running Windows 98 (no patches/security software), and another Pentium Pro *with the exact same hardware* running OpenBSD (fully patched, unnecessary services turned off, pf running with a strict ruleset), explain to me why the Win98 box will get slaughtered if I left it on the net without protection whereas the OpenBSD box wouldn't...they're running the same hardware! Now if someone showed up on my doorstep with the aforementioned soldering gun and schematics, all bets are off...heh. Most "hardware hacks" today require you to physically be present, or they are low level *software* hacks (such as Apple's WiFi driver a while back that got some news time...it was a vulnerability in the *driver*, not the *hardware*, but it was reported as a hardware vulnerability).

Simply put, hardware is a physical representation of software, and software is a "logical" representation of hardware...they do the same exact thing. I have no doubts that vulnerabilities exist in both, but hardware is much tougher to exploit (without physically being there) because of the tangible characteristic hardware tends to have.

Give me an example of what you mean, please...

Spoken like someone who's not tasted the true power of a *nix shell...I guarantee once you do, you'll cringe thinking about having to do things graphically. Most people today share that thought (Command Prompt is outdated) because they come from a Windows background (with it's neutered Command Prompt) and haven't seen a real shell before.

That is such an insanely good quote. Thanks for sharing!

Explain to me how a *hat hacker is going to hack my hardware by not entering my house/confiscating my computer. Hardware protection is only valuable for device manufactures who make cell phones, gaming consoles and other devices that they do not wish to be custumised by other people than themselves.

Well you lost the bet because I happen to own a console with a mod chip.

People who use Windows? Like I am not a PC gamer because I am running Linux on my pc... I have Quake 4, Doom 3, Quake 3, Serious Sam II, Unreal Tournament 2004 and Unreal Tournament 3 and they all run natively on Linux (ok Unreal Tournament 3 is not running natively yet but the Linux client is underway)

The XBOX360, Playstation3 and the Wii all have a ethernet port for online gaming so that statement is wrong.

A Mac is a PC. Older versions of Apple computers had a PPC CPU but the Macs that are sold today all have a Intell Core 2 CPU in them so they even have the same x86-64 architecture.

They make life more interesting? What the... ?!?!?! it's a browser plugin :S And I never upgraded my PC for Flash. I always upgraded my PC because of games and applications who required more computing power and newer graphical features.

Outdated? Then why is Microsoft working on a commandline only Windows server edition right now? Outdated my ass. There is nothing more powerfull than a commandline.

Linux is not a computer it's an OS. Microsoft is developping a commandline only Windows Server edition as we speak and Mac OS X is UNIX certified, FreeBSD based and has a powerfull terminal that I bet is used in all large MAC server rooms.

What do you mean you can't expect it on repository? A repository is a online package container hosted on a server and not a Ubuntu-only thing. You can go to the Wine website, add their repository in Ubuntu and get the latest version of their software. Whenever a new version of Wine gets released and added to the Wine repository it will then be shown as an update in the Update Manager.

Actually, I might. My second computer was just that - a 286 running DOS 5. I would rather tinker with an obsolete computer than watch some 2-minute-long clips of people singing in the shower. And I would rather play a real arcade machine or board game than the web-based clones.

I guess I've been missing the boat, then. I use my computer to read technical news including important information about viruses and other threats. I also research and study ways to fix my own problems and improve my system's performance and security.

Including installing? Apparently you've never installed Windows yourself. I don't know about Vista but every version before that begins with a DOS-based interface to scan the hardware and load the drivers necessary to launch the graphical portion of the installer. DOS has never completely gone away. It's only been crippled and hidden from the users.

You wouldn't call it silly if you've practiced with it, or if your GUI breaks and all you can login to is a command prompt.

ROFL XD

I think he meant installing userland applications, patches and that sort of thing.

That's so true! I was trying (silly me) to install KDE on Ubuntu. What I did not know was that I should not have selected KDM. I figured that selecting KDM was pretty obvious, no? So now everytime I boot Ubuntu I have to login from the cmdline, cd to /etc/x11/gdm and sudo it. When I want to shut my pc down I have to log out of Gnome and shut it down via the cmdline. I can still use Ubuntu without any problems and it increased my knowledge

Command Prompt is already outdated and true silly. No Computers except Linux uses Terminal anymore in most administrative task including installing.

Think I might put this one in my sig, it would go well with V!ncents "windows is the reason you suck at computers" Ussr_1991, as folks have already pointed out, the majority of the worlds servers are administered through the command line (shell).
Very few users of the worlds most powerfull hardware call themselves "power users" and a very large part of them do their work through the shell. What's the point in spending millions on a mainframe for (say) genetic simulations, then taking up a percentage of it's resources to draw pretty pictures? Buy the tech a gameboy and let the hardware do it's job

I guess I've been missing the boat, then. I use my computer to read technical news including important information about viruses and other threats.

... and BOFH at a guess

Where's the quotes?? KDE4 as released today is very nice, still a bit rough round the edges but it's finished enough to be my default desktop now The quote button isn't working with konqueror, javascript and flash are blocked too though so it's not all bad

That's soooo funny XD

<offtopic>
You don't need to press the Quote button as you can just type it with you keyboard (remove the whitespaces!):
[QU OTE]Text you want to quote[/QU OTE]
[ B]bold[/ B]
[ I]italic[/ I]
[ U]Underline[/ U]
[U RL="http://www.website.com"]click here now[/U RL]
</offtopic>

Hey V!ncent, you're probably right, but I've found that sound under Linux works much better than it does under Windows. My system is but a simple desktop machine, and I can browse the web while compiling a kernel, burning a DVD and listening to mp3s - all without the audio skipping a beat. In my experience, Windows' "threshhold of audio pain" is much lower - you can't even listen to mp3s while burning a disc.
*cough* Windows Server 2008 Server Core - Windows Without GUI

k,it seemed like only home pc user don't use command line at most of the time except recovery and installing apps on linux because some folks thinked that just downloading the latest firefox (For an example) on a Ubuntu 6.06 and double clicking using graphical is enough. Wrong, during that time, I did not see any .deb contains the latest version of firefox for Ubuntu 6.06 but other more newer versions (Like 7.04 or 6.10)

I tried to command line but it is too complicated.it waste me many time that i give up-using a ubuntu 7.10 is more better.

Command line might be pretty useful, but that's on the server side. I dont think the majority of the home users would use them when there is no system related task.

Regarding Ethernet on Game consoles.
Well that's true, but as far as I know, the older XBOX (NOT the 360 one) also have ethernet, but so?? You still need to have a broadband access (Same goes to PC) AND have a subscription like XBOX live. (There is online subscription that uses credit card, or simply go to some games retailer that buy a package, but it may be slightly more expensive.)

In games that dont use consoles, you save such hassle. (Yes-Some games do ask for monthly subsrciption compared to XBOX live, whereas a yearly subscription but that's some games. Some other might simply have less function or do not have premium items for free players.)

I do not know if such subscription for the new XBOX 360 is mandatory or if any similar applies to Ninetendo Wii or PS3??

I doubt the PS2 have ethernet. Not everyone could buy a PS3 because I had never heard of PS3 in Brazil (Or some other countries..).
The only exception is if you buy PS3 from Ebay
(Be it international or not, so long as the seller want to sell it to you.).
That's why Windows should be credited for making life more interesting with PC games, and they are not crap.
(Although we discredit Windows for security and stability reasons.)

I think you are somewhat wong in the sense. I did rebuild my Windows before and most of the time, although it is DOS-based, but at least you are unlikely to type the specific command like you launch the cmd.exe (This is rarely use, unless you want to "hack" a server then you "ping" here and there or you got infected by a sasser-worm, you use "shutdown -a"
(Without the quotes, " ") to abort the automatic shutdown.) or using recovery console. (I think the routine administrative task like clearing cache, defragment and maybe installing is unlikely to use command prompt/command line at all.)

And to some folks says the most powerful tool is the comand based tool- Why??

Reply (In according to the above in sequence):
I cant really explain to you about hardware cracking because I had never tried before, but heard many times.

What's a mod chip? Can you explain that?

Ok, I dont mean always, but that is possibly one of the example. For the wine example that you have stated, Wine is doing a good job for the novice- Even though I did not mention that.

ussr_1991,
R Y RLY?

You are so funny

Have You tried to install Mandrake 9.1 (back then in 2002/2003)?
8)
From the first second of install it was gui all along to the las second of shutdown!

And at all times You could bail uot to the console at will.

And if anything crshes, You could 'xkill' it or 'kill' it or even 'killall' it and the system would work on 0% hasle.

And provided enough knowledge You could download ftom the plf and cooke more then 5GB of compressed binary executive code all on your disposal.

All in GUI not a single second on 'console' or 'virtual terminal'

And now is 2k8 and Mandriva the successor of mandrake is miles ahead, and guess what, Vista ain't botting in GUI still.

Boy, ussr_1991, You ignornce is so amusing . In a couple of years You will learn the ways of power and *NIX too. Then You wil be enlightened.

Then You will learn what's the power in 'M$ power users'.It reffers to the grid's AC power burnt by the PCs running Windows. That's the only power they have in control there .

If there weren't windows we would wave so many 'experienced users' being clueless...

Ok. Maybe I was being a tad harsh. I still remember how to install Windows 3.11 on top of DOS5, and using AUTOEXEC.BAT and CONFIG.SYS files! True that the DOS portion of Windows installations doesn't ask for anything, and there's no typing, it simply scans the computer. The point was that DOS is still there.

However, in some business and network environments with a large number of workstations, installations are started from a commandline using what's known as an unattended network install.

As a side note, a system restore from a cd is an exception because it's not performing a real install. It just formats the hard disk and extracts files from a backup image.

Think of a gui tool that you use often, like xterm or your cd burner. If you look at the properties for the xterm icon or the setup for the cd burner you'll see the actual command used to start the program and any command switches. Now, open a terminal window and type man xterm. You'll see that there is a plethora of switches available to control things such as font, geometry, scroll bars, color and much more. Do the same for cdrecord. The point is, while a graphical app is easy to use it doesn't provide all of the options available, just the most common ones.

That's right up there with:
"640K should be enough for everybody." - Bill Gates
"The most reliable Windows." - Windows 98 installation
And don't forget a video clip of Bill Gates' demonstration of USB support in Win98SE! Hi-f'in-larious!

First off, Ubuntu 6.06 is 2 years old, so I would imagine that it would difficult getting a firefox deb for it. Both my PS2s have ethernet ports so you are wrong there