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PLEASE NOTE: All LQ Rules apply to the General forum. Flame wars, personal attacks, hostility, insults and behavior of that nature will not be tolerated. Differing opinions are one of the things that make this site great, but to benefit from differing opinions the discourse must happen respectfully and thoughtfully... without insult or personal attack. Members who are unable or unwilling to participate in General under those parameters will not be permitted to do so. If you see behavior of this nature please report it.
I'm sorry if this does cause any serious arguments and what some call "flamewars".
And, I'm sorry if this is long and boring. No one has to read this or even reply.
I have been a long term Windows user, back when there was a 386 machine, 5 1/4 floppies, and just DOS.
I have used Windows 3.1 and/or 3.11 workgroups, Windows 95, 98, 2000 (a little), ME, and even XP Home Edition.
At some point, I had tried out Mandrake 8.1 or 8.2 and found quite a bit awfully confusing. I didn't know how to do much of anything on there, and figured "If you can't even play CD's, something that simple, forget it."
As time went on, and trying more modern Linux OS's, and asking for help, I am able to understand this more, and know what I was missing as far as not hearing the CD.
I am able to do more, and be more comfortable with this system.
I also find that Linux based OS, seems nicer, as far as layout goes, the sort of programs, and the fact that some types of software has various programs, like more than one paint program, or email, internet, etc.
At first, I was upset with Linux, because I couldn't understand why you have to go through so much b.s. to get anything working.
"Why can't you just click on this icon, and have it install! Why go through terminal or shutdown mode, type in these commands, edit this file, then get it working!!"
Having a more modern Linux OS, more things working, and having help, I have much more patience with Linux now, and I'm currently using it, loving it more than Windows.
With Windows, it seems so bare and expensive compared to Linux.
With Linux, there's spellcheck in messnger, email, even writing in forums, word processors. Granted, Windows can have the same, but with more money, and it doesn't even have the same appeal like Linux.
The real problem, so to speak, is that Windows is so much more well known. Basically all products are designed for Windows. This is one of the reasons most just stick with Windows.
It's all over the place, basically all hardware/software is "Windows", so people use it.
I asked a question in a computer store if they can fix something. I said, Linux based, they said sorry, windows only.
If people care to use Windows, that's fine. I myself, use it some, but I try to be on Linux and learn as much as I can on here.
My greatest fear is, is that being almost everything is "Windows", that just having Linux alone, would be a mistake.
I don't mean to make it sound like using Linux is all bad, or anything.
If my hardware goes out, or there's a program that is "Windows only" and I can't get that new hardware/software going on linux, I'm screwed.
Sorry if this was long and/or pointless. As an ending note, I'm proud of those who had made the linux based OS's easier, and simply better.
I have moved this thread to General (where all the other opinion pieces go). I have also renamed it and stickied it. Any further posts like this will be merged into the new "Linux vs Windows Opinions Megathread"
I hope that, as variants of this sort of thread continue people will start trying to think of ways of bringing some real, useful content into them.
"Bad-mouthing your competitor" is not only not going to make your competitor go away; it's in downright bad form. What we really need to talk about is how Windows can learn from Linux and how Linux can learn from Windows and how all of this mish-mash of software is supposed to evolve to continue to meet ... customer's needs as well as our own.
The computing world at-large "discovered" Linux a long time ago. They poured a lot of work into it because Windows wasn't meeting their needs (and/or running on their platforms). Now things like Apple OS/X-86 are, in a way, a simple fruition of those things. Unix, and Linux, are coming into the main stream. Here it comes ... But are we ready? If not, why not, and what do we do about it. What are the competitors doing; are they right or wrong. Should we vilify them or imitate them, and if so with what. These are useful threads to "sticky" here.
Wow, I'm amazed this is/was a sticky. Sort of back on topic though; I know this so called bad mouthing isn't going to drive them away. I dont think I was really being out of line. I'm just stating my opinion. Some things are nice on Windows, others not, same with Linux.
One mentioned though, how each OS can learn from each other. I'm sure they both are getting ideas with each other, in some form. I see Windows has IE 7 beta now, with tabs, like Linux.
The bummer side is, we can't improve windows ourselves, not saying it's windows fault we can't. we just cant.
I'm sorry if I bad mouthed Windows. I kept it within reason though, basically saying why I pretty much switched to linux.
Distribution: Ubuntu Feisty, SuSE 10.1, Mandriva 2007, etc. in an AMD64X2 4200+, 2GB and an Acer 3000+ 1GB laptop
I am new on this site, although I have used and been a member of many similar sites over the past 35 years I have been around computing - I hate to admit it but I go back to 110 baud telex terminals, paper tape and like that. During my years I have seen many similar themes. In this case the differences are at the very least dramatic, and while I appreciate sundialsvcs point - it is easy to fall into the trap of negativity that benefits no one - it is unreasonable to expect everyone to maintain a high tone and positive spin, particularly given the views that they have expressed in the past about us and the whole concept Linux represents, which directly challenges the core of their business.
I come from just outside Ottawa, Canada and we have a local computing magazine here called the Monitor. They have a Linux columnist called Paul Godin, and Paul can include a sense of humour among his many gifts. He started his April column as follows:
"Yep, I'm done... No more Linux. I';m tired of not paying for my fair share of anti-virus tools, licensing fees, slow response, costly office suites, programming tools, Web page editors and all that other stuff. Yes sir, no more free ride for me. I really want to support Microsoft, now, I really want to pump up their bank account, punish myself financially and break my back to pay for every upgrade and add-on they tell me I should be paying for. I just want to wallow in DLL hell...
Okay, okay... Just having a little fun with you! After all, it is April, isn't it?"
Now that we have had a little fun, let's head for the high ground, as sundialsvcs suggests.
I want to die in peace and tranquility like my grandfather did, not screaming in terror like the passengers in his car.
I think this notion of "Windows can learn from Linux and Linux can learn from Windows" is all "We are the World" rubbish. Windows can learn how to not be a shady monopolizing megacorporation from Linux. Many of the so-called "problems" with Linux are due to ethically questionable business practices and other ills brought on by the proprietary elite.
I see Windows has IE 7 beta now, with tabs, like Linux.
Linux itself has tabs? Not as far as I know!
Some programs for Linux use tabs, but then so do some programs for Windows. Tabs are in no way a "Linux thing". In fact, most of the programs that IE is copying the tabs from are multi-platform programs.
Mr. Gates and Co. are business men. Mr. Torvalds and Co. are not. Linux and/or the distros need a marketing agency to take the product to the people.
Individually, we can really only do it one person at a time. I've converted both my kids and one guy at work. The next person who has a "broken" Windows machine is getting Linux...unless I want the hardware, of course.
Distribution: Microsoft Windows XP Professional SP2; Slackware Linux 10.2
Originally Posted by Vagrant
Well, and IBM had a marketing campaign going, "The Boy Called Linux" or whatever it was.
Those were cool commercials, but you could tell they were aimed more towards the enterprise sector more than the general public. I can remember, when my mom saw those she thought Linux was a new kind of laptop.
IMO Microsoft is a company designed by a criminal to dominate the computer industry. It has been well documented by the United States District Court for the District of Columbia (Washington, D.C. - the seat of American government) that Microsoft is criminal. Bill Gates 'got his start' by stealing computer time from Harvard, selling a company a hacked version of it's own software and cheating both them and his partner (Paul what's his name) in the process. Bill Gates has established a MO of lying, cheating, and stealing. When a real threat arrives against his poorly-coded Windows OS, or anything else Microsoft has, he first tries to buy out the competition. If that doesn't work, he uses whatever means necessary to destroy that company; the main one being suing them in court. Because he owns so many lawyers and judges, and has so much money, he usually succeeds in either forcing the company to sell to him, or putting them out of business because they can't pay the court and legal fees to defend themselves. This is not an unfounded rant, but facts which are verifiable.
In most countries of the world, Bill Gates would be locked in jail and the key thrown away. Why not America? Trace his money trail and see how many politicians he owns.
When it comes down to it, there are software packages designed for all operating systems. We have choices, and I dare say there's nothing that can't be used in the OS you choose. I happen to prefer Adobe InDesign for desktop publishing, and Adobe Photoshop for image editing. There is nothing comparable to InDesign in open source. There is GIMP which isn't a substitute for Photoshop, but will work for most things. So for these two apps, and a few more, I installed QEMU in Slackware. Then I installed a Windows OS which I purchased prior to using Slackware in QEMU. Then I installed those apps only designed for Windows in Windows inside QEMU. So now I can use the superior software that is only designed for Bill Gates inferior OS in the much superior Slackware Linux OS -- without having to reboot.
If open source applications comparable in quality were available, I'd never let anything from Microsoft touch a hard drive of mine again. But at this time, there are professional services for which I use those apps, and no suitable replacement for my needs.
I'd like nothing better than to see Microsoft's monopoly dissolved as AT&T's was -- and Bill Gates jailed for his criminal activities. But as long as Bill owns the politicians, it's not going to happen.
Well, I'm no fan of Microsoft but I think some of those points aren't really accurate Chinaman. One thing, when we attack the proprietary companies, we must ensure our arguments are on point, lest we come off as fringe fanatics.