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View Poll Results: Would you go back to Windows?
Yes 5 13.16%
NO! 22 57.89%
Hell NO, I would rather eat my own s***! 6 15.79%
Maybe/don't know? 5 13.16%
Voters: 38. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-19-2017, 11:20 PM   #46
273
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Woolie Wool: I've a feeling you're just posting for a reaction now -- MS have been pretty clear for a few decades now that "customers" are just leasing the OS.
Since you're posting form Linux I'll take it that you're just trolling.
 
Old 08-20-2017, 02:53 AM   #47
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At the end of the day, weather it's you paying the 'lease' or someone else, it's still NOT your intellectual property and thus, you are still effectively leasing/renting it from M$. It's certainly NOT open-source, ..the 'price' of Windows (retail/business use/etc) is a one off rental fee, if that makes sense.
 
Old 08-20-2017, 05:46 PM   #48
Woolie Wool
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 273 View Post
Woolie Wool: I've a feeling you're just posting for a reaction now -- MS have been pretty clear for a few decades now that "customers" are just leasing the OS.
Since you're posting form Linux I'll take it that you're just trolling.
My main PC is a Windows machine, and I have used Windows since the days of Windows 3.1. I'm just fed up with conspiratorial thinking that Microsoft is just waiting for an excuse to take away everybody's Windows licenses for some reason, or turn all versions of Windows into the discount S versions that use the app store for everything. That's not going to happen. The entire Windows ecosystem depends on custom-built software that Microsoft has no control over, from small single-purpose Unix-like utilities downloaded from amateur's websites to gigantic bespoke enterprise software suites that cost millions of dollars, and furthermore, Microsoft, by being late to the market, are mostly locked out of the smartphone and "internet terminal" tablet/laptop market (think Chromebooks and the like) that walled garden software thrives in.
 
Old 08-21-2017, 11:04 AM   #49
enorbet
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Woolie Wool - I've heard conspiracy theories but not that MS will void licenses. In any contractual agreement there is no need for one party to deny the validity of the contract/license as long as they retain the right/option to alter the terms at will, especially when the 2nd party has no rights whatsoever but that which the 1st party allows. At best that is Indentured Servitude.

Naturally, since the 2nd Party retains the right to abandon the deal, they are also affected in that regard by market forces but that is powerfully affected by the 1st Party's power to quell competition/options available to the 2nd, which MS has in great abundance not to mention the will to use it to destroy or consume others. Don't forget that at the same time MS was making use of Open Source software Monkey Boy referred to Linux as "that virus". It is the duplicity and deception that bothers me most about MS and most corporate boardrooms - The Cathedral.

I fully understand the perception that "you still need Windows" because by hook and by crook they have worked hard and been very successful at creating just that manner of environment, a near monopoly. Corporations only pay convenient lip-service to Capitalism. They really desire and seek Economic Dictatorship. I can't support that and thanks to Linux, I don't have to.

Last edited by enorbet; 08-21-2017 at 11:06 AM.
 
Old 08-21-2017, 11:27 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woolie Wool View Post
My main PC is a Windows machine, and I have used Windows since the days of Windows 3.1. I'm just fed up with conspiratorial thinking that Microsoft is just waiting for an excuse to take away everybody's Windows licenses for some reason, or turn all versions of Windows into the discount S versions that use the app store for everything. That's not going to happen. The entire Windows ecosystem depends on custom-built software that Microsoft has no control over, from small single-purpose Unix-like utilities downloaded from amateur's websites to gigantic bespoke enterprise software suites that cost millions of dollars, and furthermore, Microsoft, by being late to the market, are mostly locked out of the smartphone and "internet terminal" tablet/laptop market (think Chromebooks and the like) that walled garden software thrives in.
For crying out loud there's nothing "conspiratorial" here just M$ stating that everything done on their OS is their property. They stated that in their terms and conditions, nobody made that up in tinfoil hat land.
 
Old 08-21-2017, 01:23 PM   #51
wpeckham
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 273 View Post
For crying out loud there's nothing "conspiratorial" here just M$ stating that everything done on their OS is their property. They stated that in their terms and conditions, nobody made that up in tinfoil hat land.
Well, to be exact, they state their terms and conditions in each release, and with every release the new license (once you accept it for even one workstation) overrides and updates the license of every other install you own to the new terms. That bothers me. If I am running a licensed version of MS-DOS 5.1 I do not want the terms to change just because I buy a new laptop more than two decades later and it comes with Win-10!

There is also that
Quote:
...just M$ stating that everything done on their OS is their property...
thing is not quite what it says. There are times when, as a developer, what they claim is close enough to that to make me terribly uncomfortable. I would rather develop on Linux, FreeBSD, Kolibrios, FreeDOS, or ReactOS and know that I clearly own my own work.

I do not buy into the rabid anti-Microsoft rants, Microsoft is just a business. That is bad enough without claiming them as the "evil empire"! OSS is better. Linux is technically and philosophically better, as well as relatively unencumbered.
If MicroSoft could unencumber their OS so that it was not so restricted and restrictive, it would still lack some technical advantages. It would, however, be something that we could improve and develop for with less angst and stress.

Don't hold your breath waiting for THAT to happen.
 
Old 11-14-2017, 12:44 PM   #52
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Talking

I switched to Slackware 14.2 64 just over a year ago. The chances of me going back to Windows are lower than that of a Whelk in a Supernova.

You may well ask, as Arthur Dent did, "What's a Whelk go to do with a Supernova?" Ford Prefect in The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy knows that answer!

 
Old 11-14-2017, 01:18 PM   #53
enorbet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wpeckham View Post
I do not buy into the rabid anti-Microsoft rants, Microsoft is just a business. That is bad enough without claiming them as the "evil empire"! OSS is better. Linux is technically and philosophically better, as well as relatively unencumbered.
Just a business? I own a 10 year old Hyundai that still runs great but recently bought a Nissan Versa Note. I can keep them both in the same garage and neither attempts to destroy the other.

Billy was a paranoid hypocrite before owning a software company appeared in a wet dream, certainly before he ever read his hypocritical "thieves!" rant at The Homebrew Computer Club. He effectively majored in poker at Harvard and has been oft reported as "super competitive" and "MUST win at any cost". He is quoted as saying "The question isn't if you're paranoid but are you paranoid enough?" That perception that all are out to get you is a common, sociopathic justification that would make Machiavelli smile. He and his company are well known for destroying any perceived competition either by crushing or "making an offer they can't refuse", Godfather style. "MonkeyBoy" Balmer made a point of calling Linux, "that virus" even though at the time Linux had only ~1% (0.01) Market Share.

Windows functionally fills an important niche and has improved over time.... well, at least up to v7, but their true colors, only hinted at in earlier versions, are now, with v10, becoming boldly clear. Microsoft is a rabid rottweiller that eats day-old puppies for breakfast and if a dog like that lived in your neighborhood you, and anyone with a desire for progress, let alone a moral compass, would likely vote for it to be castrated or "put down"... IMHO of course.
 
Old 11-14-2017, 05:54 PM   #54
sundialsvcs
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I happen to think that Microsoft Windows is a very fine, very well-engineered operating system ... ... in spite of(!) the Microsoft Marketing Department!

Give the Devil his due: they've sold about as many copies of this thing as McDonald's has sold hamburgers. They must be doing something right ...

... "although I cannot for the life of me tell you what it is ..."
 
Old 11-14-2017, 06:09 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sundialsvcs View Post
...Give the Devil his due: they've sold about as many copies of this thing as McDonald's has sold hamburgers. They must be doing something right ...

... "although I cannot for the life of me tell you what it is ..."
Doing for computing what McDonald's has done for the culinary arts?
 
Old 11-15-2017, 12:23 AM   #56
enorbet
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If Microsoft ever needed a clue as to how gullible much of it's client base is, they got it with the release of Windows 98 which amounted to a Service Pack for Win95 (mostly regarding extending USB support, including the AGP slot) and in no way qualified for a whole new version of an OpSys, yet most simply "ponied up" full price for a few dings removed and a new paint job. IMHO Win2K was instead a rather monumental achievement. It was something like 60% new code, yet set records for least proportion of bugs per kloc. It was also a serious OpSys, unfortunately a bit watered down for convenience sake in XP.

Illegal arms and drugs sales is measured in billions of dollars, yet I doubt anyone wishes to applaud their business savvy. Anyone disliking the comparison to "actual crooks" might do well to recall MS caught in lies to the DOJ, yet still getting away scot free.
 
Old 11-15-2017, 01:06 AM   #57
jsbjsb001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sundialsvcs View Post
I happen to think that Microsoft Windows is a very fine, very well-engineered operating system ... ... in spite of(!) the Microsoft Marketing Department!

Give the Devil his due: they've sold about as many copies of this thing as McDonald's has sold hamburgers. They must be doing something right ...

... "although I cannot for the life of me tell you what it is ..."
And I'm sure that many would disagree. While at the end of the day, it is up to the individual what system they wish to use, at least 90% of any desktop PC you can buy, WILL come with Windows pre-installed.

Microsoft's Marketing Department must be doing something right, if they convince most (if not EVERY) major PC manufacturer to pre-install a copy of Windows on at least 90% of all new PC's they sell.

They have a commercial agreement with M$, that's why Windows is on most desktop's, full stop!

I really fail to understand how on earth you could say that because of the fact M$ "sells" that many copy's, that by extension, that MUST mean Windows is a "very fine, very well-engineered" system.

UAC for just one example was not designed with the rest of the system. It was tacked on in Vista and it killed Vista, being the reason many people wanted to go back to XP instead. Linux/UNIX on the other hand, have always had that sort of thing.

Last edited by jsbjsb001; 11-15-2017 at 01:18 AM. Reason: typo's
 
Old 11-15-2017, 01:54 AM   #58
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I should think it's pretty obvious why every computer manufacturer puts Windows on his machines. No new version of Windows ever runs properly on old hardware, and you can't just stick with the old version because the makers of firewalls and anti-virus will stop supporting it when MS officially end-of-lifes it. So every two years or so, everybody has to buy a new computer. That's what keeps the manufacturers going in an otherwise saturated market. Of course they want to support Windows. It's their bread and butter.

There is also the matter of "legacy". Just as English keyboards use the inefficient qwerty map because it's the one everybody is accustomed to using, so computers sell best when they come with the OS that people are accustomed to using. Which means that they never become accustomed to using anything different.

Last edited by hazel; 11-15-2017 at 02:02 AM.
 
Old 11-15-2017, 01:54 PM   #59
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Would You Go Back To Windows

First of all, if your using Linux/derivative, you've pretty well figured it out! Reading through the responses posted here, I've been amused. Micros#*t exists because most of the world is ignorant to the existence of other/alternative O.S. systems. Plain and simple. If you had the ability to "ask the world" why they use Micros%&t, I'm sure the overwhelming response would be "because that's what my laptop/PC has on it". Also, it's been my experience that when folks discover I use Linux, they think one of 2 thoughts...generally. #1. Gawd, he must be some sort of computer geek/genius, or #2 He must be some deviant terrorist!! Yes, surprising is the misconceptions people have of those who've even heard of Linux. I would be surprised to find anyone, given options of Micros%^t or Linux, would ever re-consider Micros&*t.
I DON'T DO WINDOWS
Rick
 
Old 11-15-2017, 02:59 PM   #60
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Earlier this evening I did look for Windows 10 licenses as I am still not completely ruling out a dual boot* but, again, it's just such an illustration of how little MS cares about the end user and the product. I could, apparently, purchase a Windows 10 license for 10 (about 8) then download and install Windows. So, either it's that cheap or M$ are too busy talking rubbish about Linux to stop people selling illegitimate licenses.
Apparently M$ only want customers who are either forced to use their OS or are buying stolen copies -- nowhere do I see a reasonably-priced way to purchase Windows 10 easily and cleanly.

*Scr** everyone else, I'll game if I want to etc....
 
  


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