Right! So Dawkins is this flashy scientist and that automatically makes him an authority on the human sciences too? Add up the curricula of the humanities and you'll have ten times longer to study than if you combined all the sciences. And yet here is this genius who somehow has figured it out just like that. Phew, I tip my hat to that. Danke schön, Herr Dawkins, for your brilliant survey of 2600 years of philosophy, 2000 years of theology, 200 years of psychology, 2400 years of rhetoric, 300 years of sociology, 2500 years of history, 2500 years of linguistics, over 200 years of mythology and anthropology, 4000 years of literature, many more years of art, etc. - and all prettily distilled within a few hundred pages. Am I entitled to a batch of Ph.Ds after reading that book? I am still deeply impressed with the man's representation of Thomas Aquinas in a few lines - when the man's Summa Theologicae alone is actually a couple thousands ofpages. Not to mention his utter lack of understanding concerning the Aristotelian and Neo-Platonic underpinnings of the passages that he "refutes".

Speaking of child abuse (even though we weren't), how do the religious equate stories like this: http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/...delusions.html and http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/...ild-abuse.html

Each of the people involved in the stories brought misery and suffering to a child and each one is very religious. It would be easy to say "too religious" but then one has to draw the line and say which side you need to stand to be too religious.... Us nasty evil atheists would have those kids over to the doctors toot sweet!!

I'll outdo Dawkins on that. Thomas Aquinas: feeble-minded damned MORON. One thing about Aquinas - he has the most long-winded circular argument I had ever had the displeasure of being coerced into reading. There is absolutely no doubt though that Aquinas was just an imbecile - for some reason a venerated imbecile, but an imbecile nonetheless.

And the people of Oldham did sin greatly in God's eyes, eating thereof that which should be His. Lo, they gorgeth themselves on bread and dripping, and lusteth after the black pudding. And God saith, verily I would lay waste their city, but that it looketh such a mess already. And he sendeth upon them Asian take-aways, pizza parlours, and burger joints, so that they would turn away from their sin.
--Brian, chapter XIII, verse 95

Mmmm ... black pudding. I once asked my grandma if we could have jesus as black pudding in church rather than a stale piece of bread, but I was just told that I was a wicked little boy. I was so disappointed; black pudding would have been so much better - and the bread was always too small to fill my tummy anyway. The priest always had a much larger piece of bread; I always wondered which part of jesus he got to eat.

Mmm, I'd rather not speculate about that...

if religion had more of an influence in the west, then there would be alot less anti-social behaviour in the first place. children would have been taught from birth, the values of that religion. kindness, compassion etc etc. its just obvious.

without religions standards and boundaries, parents have got no reference on how to behave themselves, let alone when it comes to teaching their children. where else do you think people take instruction on how to live better lives? jerry springer?

religion encourages people to live better lives.

I can quite confidently say that the majority of crimes are committed by the non-religious.

its simply obvious.

this is a major part of the problem.

I cant quite put my finger on it, but you atheists have got some sort of chip on your shoulder. victimisation complex or something.

if a member of a religon even suggest that you partake in anything even remotely religious, you scream "OMG! THEY'RE TRYING TO BRAIN WASH ME!"

why do atheists need to be so loud and ill-mannered when they talk about other peoples religions.

why is that?

its not affecting you directly, so why do care so much?

I think theres something else going on with you atheists at an indivdual level.

but then I get the feeling that most of you seem to think you are living in a utopian paradise, and any idea is enough to destroy it. well Ive got news for you, people need to be controlled or theres anarchy.

That's just your delusional religious upbringing that has been embedded into your mind from you're parents or church that has taught you. It is possible to lead a good moral life without religion, thousands and probably millions do it every day.

Perhaps you should read: Parenting Beyond Belief: On Raising Ethical, Caring Kids without Religion by Dale McGowan.

I'm just surprised by the many religious people I meet who have never even read the bible they follow in it's entirety. I was raised in a Christian home myself, I've read the bible several times in my life and I feel it's just a big book of fable stories. But I also respect if someone wants to believe in it, well here in the U.S. you're totally entitled to, it's called freedom.


Sure, there are many millions who fill the emptiness in their lives with religion because they believe it will help them live a better life. All power to them, I have no problem with that myself.

Bullshit. I'm pretty sure the majority that are sitting in jails were raised religiously or are religious. People who lack the belief in a God are such a smaller number than those that believe in a God. I highly doubt the thousands or millions sitting in jail convicted of crimes were all atheists.

From a quick search, according to this study someone did: http://www.holysmoke.org/icr-pri.htm

This was done by Denise Golumbaski who is a Research Analyst for the Federal Bureau of Prisons.

So before you start spurting out utter crap you've apparently made up, you should do some type of research to back up your most likely false statements.

But it does affect us directly. Every time a believer gets a concession because of that belief, it pushes an atheist down slightly. The jerry Springer musical was threatened by a Christian group, and there are other examples, but atheists are supposed to sit by quietly and not make a fuss.

In this modern world, which has enough wonders from our ability to see to the microscopic level and beyond and out in to the stars, why do we need to invent new wonders?

Maybe because atheists are the real true minority in the world. I can care less but it seems to me in most cases, it's the total opposite. People who are religious find out I'm an atheist and they can't grasp the concept that I lead a more moral life than they do without religion.

yet again, I state that I dont follow any organised religion, never have. I was not bought up in a religious household.

well that is just the problem isnt it, most people will not be bothered to read your parenting books. most people learn from those around them and from every day life. like going to the church and being with their friends?



just because someone says they are christian, and wear a gold cross around their neck, or have a tattoo of the cross on their arm, that doesnt make them religious. they are wearing the gold cross for fashion. dont mistake these people for true believers. so no, there arnt alot of truely religious people in prison, thats rediculous, because they wouldnt put themselves in the situations that lead to prison. its obvious (to me).

you need to get some common sense.

So, what's your point?



That's the problem with some people though, they only read what their religion tells them to read and nothing else. It doesn't teach them to be skeptical or keep an open mind, everyone else is wrong and they're right type of attitude. Most people do learn from others, which is good but not always.


You don't know these people. To me, I'm not trying to prove that people who are religious are more evil, I'm just trying to point out that your statement was false. It just proves to me that these people who choose to believe in a God are also just that, they're human and are entitled to make mistakes just like anyone else is. Now don't get me wrong though, people who follow religion or believe in a God but commit crimes are just people who don't follow their religion very closely.


I go with nothing but common sense but I also will base my statements on facts. You're just pissed cause the statistics I posted proved you're statement wrong.

It only takes a person to say they believe in a God or say they're Catholic or Protestant to be religious, it accounts for something.

I do believe there are more closet atheists out there less willing to admit though that they honestly don't believe in a God or Gods. And if those that do and are sitting in jail, will most likely still not surpass the amount of admitted atheists in jail. It's not even the relevant point of who's more moral or not based on if they're in jail or not.

The thing I've noticed about atheists are most are not out and about trying to shove their beliefs down others, that's the religious type in most cases.

I can't recall the last time I got an atheist to knock on my door to try and convert me, but I can recall the many many times Jehovah's Witness, Mormons and others knocking on my door, leaving pamphlets on my door, etc to try and convert me.

well why should someone be able to insult someone elses religion? what if I came around to your house, observed how you lived, and told you that you wernt living properly?

alot of people make the mistake of thinking religion is seperate to the person, it is not, it is who these people are at their very core. we may not like it, but who are we? people have got problems, and they try and get through life as best they can. telling them that something they've known all of their lives, and which gives them comfort and meaning and guidence is misguided imo.

but I dont like people being given concessions for simply being a part of a group either, but that is down to a politically correct environment, not the religious groups. they have been allowed this power.

all groups fight for power, religious, female, gay.

the irony is, its you atheists (particularly the white women) that have been pushing political correctness on everyone for years, and now you find yourselves as the most discriminated group in society.

maybe not you the middle-class computer programmer, but go onto a working-class housing estate in manchester or bradford and listen to people there.

cato the younger said this: "the moment they become your equals, they become your masters".

there are realities in life that some people on this board are not facing up to.

the reason the atheist isnt knocking on your door is that he's waiting for you to go to sleep so he can climb through the window and steal your television set.

are Jehovah's Witness and Mormons that knock on your door occassionally really that big a problem?