A few explanations of the origin, including the Colchester cannon:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humpty_Dumpty

Just been reading a news item about those "merciful" moslems. In Somalia, they've stoned a 13 year old girl to death because she was raped. Apparently they count rape as adultery.

That reminds me of an ancient MAD spoof of some old movie about Annie Oakley. This character says he's a peace-lovin' man and he kills people because "there ain't no one more peaceful than a dead man".

I think it was only a few months ago that there was a news snippet from Pakistan showing how some folks there are training their kids to make peace with the Jews (even though most of them will never see a Jew).

Somalia is a special case - they circumcise their women, not their men. So it's not so hard to imagine that when the women are victims, it is the women who must be punished. But don't say that they have a backward religion or they'll kill you.

They have a backward-ass religion, and religion (all of it) should be ridden of because of stuff like this.

I would say these people are in the minority of extremists.

I dont condone extreme religous practices.

but when you think about it, rape and killings happen in secular countries too, so these things arnt exclusive to religion.

No they're not. But these and other atrocities seem to be tools of this particular religion. Let's not forget the Q'uran approved punishment for apostacy.

Looks like another religious discussion went to hell. Real shame. I hoped for something more interesting instead of standart flamewar crap.

Seems both ironic and fitting, doesn't it?

well as I understand it, many passages of the Q'uran are open to interpretation. not having read the Q'uran, I can only go by what Ive heard reported, although I havent heard many stories of this type.

but religion is a system, just like our law, and thats not perfect either.

infact religion on the whole does a better job than law, because law is reactive and after-the-fact, whereas religion trys to prevent disharmony in a community the first place.

the ideal, I suppose, is a balance of the two, but certainly in Britian there is virtually no religion on the white side anymore, so that takes away the preventative, but also the sentences for criminals after they have commited crimes are so short and its so easy in our prisons, that there is almost no deterrant to wrong doing whatsoever.

so we cant say we've got things right either imo.

no it hasnt Erv, its because you have put me on ignore, and now you cant get a balanced view of the discussion.

besides, your submissions to this thread have hardly been insightful.

your contribution has been 'niche' to say the least.

he'll just pop up from time to time, talk about something on the fringe of the subject, and in such minute detail, that you lose interest.

then he'll have a moan at me, and tell me Im still on his ignore list.

No they are not; this is widespread practice in Somalia. It's also the tradition in Pakistan although I'm told it's supposedly condemned by the laws of the country, but on the other hand few people want to prosecute because they don't want to break with tradition. There are many other nations where the women who are victims are murdered or jailed. The morals squads in Saudi Arabia would be quite happy to drag a rape victim through the streets and incite a mob to stone her to death.

For some information on the q'ran from people who *have* read it, see:

http://www.apostatesofislam.com/

There's a lot of material to read in there, and if you don't believe it you can always get yourself an english translation of an official version of the q'ran.

But in secular countries, we do not execute the victim. See the difference?

how many other moderate islamic/christian/jewish countries/communities dont stone people to death? the vast majority I would guess. and those people benefit greatly from religion in their lives.

in any case, the problem is not religion, the problem is people. but why do religions need to control their people?

simple.

its because when people are just allowed to do what they want to do, the society dissolves and it becomes much worse, because if there is no religion, that void is replaced with selfishness.

and I still maintain no system is perfect, and all systems are prone to abuse.

and anyway I cant believe the practice of stoning rape victims to death is as common as you think it is. if it were, I'd have heard alot more about it than I have, and I listen to all sections of the British news daily, from newsnight (tv) through to the today programme (radio), to the quality broadsheet newspapers here in the UK, and the last I heard of something of this nature was 2 years ago in waziristan.

you paint it asthough its something that happens all the time. but Im sure If it did I would be more aware of it.

but what seems clear to me, is that religion may have its negative and even extreme practices in some areas of the world, but on the whole and for the majority of people, it does a good job. yes they may need reminders and pursuading occassionally to behave (although I dont condone stoning to death.)

you people seem to get bogged down in your hate for religion.

what about hitler, mao, stalin, capitalism, the US & UK war in Iraq? these sorts of things are far worse than religion. people suffer and die in their millions, and yet here you guys are, going on about a relative tiny minority of people who suffer through religious reasons.

religion is not perfect, because people arnt perfect, but its the glue of society.

without it, society dissolves into every man, woman and child for themselves.

This is known as a false proposition. It is simply not true that society dissolves without religion.