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View Poll Results: Human Caused Climate Change is Real?
Yes 37 72.55%
No. It's a Hoax 11 21.57%
Jury Isn't In Yet 3 5.88%
Voters: 51. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-03-2019, 06:27 AM   #481
jsbjsb001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
Well, jsbj001, if you're driving on an icy road and stomp on the accelerator, spin off the road and kill everyone in the car, I'm not going to blame the ice even though it is a factor.
While I think like a certain thread of yours in the Slackware forum there, this subject has been debated to death now (nothing personal), I'll bite hopefully just this once...

The point behind what I said was that; if you want to solve a problem; then the first step is being honest about what exactly the problem is, as well as the causes behind it. Just because something like Climate Change is "man-influenced", it doesn't make it "man-made". Again, climate change has been happening since the dawn of time (probably even before that), the problem is that we as a human race have brought the "tipping point" caused by climate change much closer, much quicker then it otherwise would have been. It still would have been inevitable in any case, it just would have come about much later if it were not for our helping help so to speak.

At the end of the day, it's countries like the US, China, India, Russia, etc that will decide how "manageable" climate change is or isn't. In other words: how quickly we need to find another planet to live on. As, we as a human race will need to find another planet to live on at some point, as the Earth will become uninhabitable at some point. It's not really a question of if, but when.

Ironically, it's countries like China that seem to be taking the lead in dealing with climate change. Which is pretty ironic since they are still a communist country, with a communist government. Your president Trump along with his EPA chief from what I hear, don't even believe in climate change, and in fact, think it's all one big hoax. Again pretty ironic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cynwulf View Post
...
Ironically it was deforestation which led to these fires...
...
I think you'll find at least some of those same fires were in fact started to clear more land...
 
Old 09-03-2019, 07:24 AM   #482
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsbjsb001 View Post
I think you'll find at least some of those same fires were in fact started to clear more land...
True of course - perhaps I should have worded it "contributed".
 
Old 09-03-2019, 08:50 AM   #483
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsbjsb001 View Post
While I think like a certain thread of yours in the Slackware forum there, this subject has been debated to death now (nothing personal), I'll bite hopefully just this once...
I have learned a few new things from that other thread which was why I started it, so no offense taken. I wanted to hear about actual experience and like you am tired of pontification. However though both threads are on controversial, emotion-ridden, politicized subjects they are very different. Nobody is going to die over systemd. Many just might over climate change.

What I'd hoped they'd have in common is increased experience, more actual data and in both cases that has occurred to some degree. I'm actually fairly proud of this thread and the number of views signals me others find it interesting, and hopefully valuable as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jsbjsb001 View Post
The point behind what I said was that; if you want to solve a problem; then the first step is being honest about what exactly the problem is, as well as the causes behind it. Just because something like Climate Change is "man-influenced", it doesn't make it "man-made". Again, climate change has been happening since the dawn of time (probably even before that), the problem is that we as a human race have brought the "tipping point" caused by climate change much closer, much quicker then it otherwise would have been. It still would have been inevitable in any case, it just would have come about much later if it were not for our helping help so to speak.
Actually it is my understanding that some of the alarm is over the fact that a cooling period was expected for the last 50+ years. It wasn't and isn't inevitable, but it is extremely rapid when compared to things that normally take place in Geological Time. Again please consider the analogy of you driving on an icy road. Is it your take that stomping on the accelerator is not irresponsible?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jsbjsb001 View Post
At the end of the day, it's countries like the US, China, India, Russia, etc that will decide how "manageable" climate change is or isn't. In other words: how quickly we need to find another planet to live on. As, we as a human race will need to find another planet to live on at some point, as the Earth will become uninhabitable at some point. It's not really a question of if, but when.
Why even bring up "finding another planet to live on"? It's not like a "Get Out of Jail, Free" card since it is unlikely any mass exodus can take place for at least 100 years and probably much more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jsbjsb001 View Post
Ironically, it's countries like China that seem to be taking the lead in dealing with climate change. Which is pretty ironic since they are still a communist country, with a communist government. Your president Trump along with his EPA chief from what I hear, don't even believe in climate change, and in fact, think it's all one big hoax. Again pretty ironic.
I don't find that ironic. I find that criminal. It remains to be seen what will happen in the next election but I have considerable confidence that 2-3 terms (8-12 years) will be quite enough for everyone to be painfully aware Anthropogenic Climate Change is no joke, and that a few powerful people have much to answer for.
 
Old 09-03-2019, 09:29 AM   #484
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Dorian is the biggest hurricane ever, and it isn't behaving the way hurricanes are supposed to behave. Usually they breeze through the Caribbean, come ashore in the US and then get downgraded to tropical storms. Dorian just sits there drowning the Bahamians. I bet they believe in climate change.
 
Old 09-03-2019, 09:52 AM   #485
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Well enorbet, "pontification" seems to be the order of the day, sadly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
...
Again please consider the analogy of you driving on an icy road. Is it your take that stomping on the accelerator is not irresponsible?
...
No, clearly it would be. I wasn't disputing your point there either. But while I maintain what I said before; it seems your president Trump is far more concerned with the $$$, than he is about climate change. You may have considerable confidence in your country's upcoming elections, but as optimistic as you may be (and I don't really blame you for wanting to be); I doubt someone like Trump even has the will, let alone the brains to think beyond whatever stereotypes/misconceptions and such he seems to hold - as much as one would like to think otherwise. So I wouldn't count your chickens just yet, but who knows, maybe stranger things have happened.

I am a little surprised however that Trump wouldn't see it as a potential money spinner. But instead, your president Trump would rather open coal plants and other "climate unfriendly" finite resources. As, with the right technology, and in particular battery storage to store renewable energy captured, then there could be enough base-load power for industry. The key to my way of thinking, is to basically make every house a mini-power station returning any excess power back to the grid, without drawing power from the grid. Again, that involves battery storage, for when the sun ain't shining, and the wind ain't blowing, combined with renewable power sources. But of course that involves government funding for those that can't afford such things, as well as research and development funding from government to develop renewable sources - all of that is key.

I think the bottom line is that: you would want to hope the Democrats get up come your upcoming elections. But even then, who knows...
 
Old 09-03-2019, 04:07 PM   #486
enorbet
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FWIW, jsbjsb001, regarding US elections, I am not optimistic and I'm not a Democrat. I do think that Trump is literally "right on the money" in pushing for even more fossil fuel usage since that is definitely where the money currently is. It is also part of why it is actually criminal from my POV. Those that see Climate Change as a hoax for the purpose of some windfall are either buying into the hype, delusional, or just sadly mistaken. All alternatives are literally "betting against the House", profit-wise. I spent three years working for a fairly large solar energy firm while also on the Board of Directors, and I don't see how renewables alone (let alone just solar) can turn the tide. I'm counting more on nuclear. If you haven't followed the link I posted about that, you really should.
 
Old 09-04-2019, 08:52 AM   #487
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsbjsb001 View Post
Well enorbet, "pontification" seems to be the order of the day, sadly.



No, clearly it would be. I wasn't disputing your point there either. But while I maintain what I said before; it seems your president Trump is far more concerned with the $$$, than he is about climate change. You may have considerable confidence in your country's upcoming elections, but as optimistic as you may be (and I don't really blame you for wanting to be); I doubt someone like Trump even has the will, let alone the brains to think beyond whatever stereotypes/misconceptions and such he seems to hold - as much as one would like to think otherwise. So I wouldn't count your chickens just yet, but who knows, maybe stranger things have happened.

I am a little surprised however that Trump wouldn't see it as a potential money spinner. But instead, your president Trump would rather open coal plants and other "climate unfriendly" finite resources. As, with the right technology, and in particular battery storage to store renewable energy captured, then there could be enough base-load power for industry. The key to my way of thinking, is to basically make every house a mini-power station returning any excess power back to the grid, without drawing power from the grid. Again, that involves battery storage, for when the sun ain't shining, and the wind ain't blowing, combined with renewable power sources. But of course that involves government funding for those that can't afford such things, as well as research and development funding from government to develop renewable sources - all of that is key.

I think the bottom line is that: you would want to hope the Democrats get up come your upcoming elections. But even then, who knows...
I don't think Trump was concerned with $$$, but rather, votes.

Despite Trump's lips telling lies, overall coal power is still on a downward slope, not just because of policy but also because the economics of coal are worse than for natural gas. I don't think that whatever stupid tricks the EPA is pulling right now is going to turn that situation around.

Also, I'm not sure about batteries being so great. They don't last all that long. Also, rare earth mining seems pretty destructive, but maybe that's just China's problem. I'm still reading up on these things.
 
Old 09-08-2019, 04:48 PM   #488
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For those of you here who still doubt the overwhelming scientific evidence for Anthropogenic Global Climate Change all I can say is "Read 'em and weep". This should sober you right up.

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com...limate-change/
 
Old 09-08-2019, 06:02 PM   #489
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People think they have to have babies to fix climate change, because they're smart so they have to carry on their seed...

Add: how smart would your kids be if you didn't give them a library‽

Last edited by jamison20000e; 09-08-2019 at 06:04 PM.
 
Old 09-08-2019, 08:40 PM   #490
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If it gets too hot in America, we could switch to Celsius.
 
Old 09-08-2019, 09:38 PM   #491
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Thumbs down

It's bad enough that industries waste tuns of plastic* every year and that we're building mountains out of it. But, we are no better, alot of the guys I work with, their wife's got sick of them not bringing home the Tupperware so now they're all using styrofoam containers every day!

Last edited by jamison20000e; 09-08-2019 at 09:42 PM. Reason: Typ0
 
Old 09-09-2019, 06:05 AM   #492
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamison20000e View Post
People think they have to have babies to fix climate change, because they're smart so they have to carry on their seed...
You have a simple choice as an intelligent, responsible individual who apparently cares somewhat about the planet (and presumably isn't just pontificating and finger pointing):

Reproduce and hopefully pass on that ethos and those values.

Don't reproduce and leave it to those who couldn't give a flying **** to inherit the earth.

That's it really - there's no huge amount of science involved.

That's how we make a difference. If the lessons don't begin in the home, all the schooling and education in the world won't help.

If the school says "plastic is killing marine life", but dad is throwing all the plastic "recycling" out with the general waste, then...?

If school says burning fossil fuel is bad for planet, but dad's big 5 litre engine 4x4 is parked outside...
 
Old 09-09-2019, 07:51 AM   #493
jamison20000e
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Arrow

Quote:
Originally Posted by cynwulf View Post
You have a simple choice as an intelligent, responsible individual who apparently cares somewhat about the planet (and presumably isn't just pontificating and finger pointing):

Reproduce and hopefully pass on that ethos and those values.

Don't reproduce and leave it to those who couldn't give a flying **** to inherit the earth.

That's it really - there's no huge amount of science involved.

That's how we make a difference. If the lessons don't begin in the home, all the schooling and education in the world won't help.

If the school says "plastic is killing marine life", but dad is throwing all the plastic "recycling" out with the general waste, then...?

If school says burning fossil fuel is bad for planet, but dad's big 5 litre engine 4x4 is parked outside...
Then why do most people send their kids to schools rather than home teaching‽

I came close to having kids few times. And, who's to say I won't but at this point it won't be because I'm some dumb animal!

Babies want to learn more than anyone else...

Last edited by jamison20000e; 09-09-2019 at 07:53 AM. Reason: Forgot the quote to which partially I agree
 
Old 09-09-2019, 12:52 PM   #494
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamison20000e View Post
Then why do most people send their kids to schools rather than home teaching‽
Time, qualifications, and the efficacy of Division of Labor.
 
Old 09-09-2019, 02:00 PM   #495
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Not to mention they don't let religion in there, hehehe...
 
  


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