well... i think you'got me all wrong here, i'm a happy Linux-user, and the last thing i want is making Linux
look like some M$# thing.

but in some other thread (?) i wrote how long it took me to get all HW working ( it was without any support of this site
or anywhere ) and i think it scares people off of Linux . i still think some graphical installation tool would help
many people to start with Linux. ( that's also on of the goals of this site ??? )

and Linux replacing M$# , ? i like the idea.......

egag

there ARE easy-to-use distros out there - why does it need to be any easier? the great thing about Linux is that there's a wide variety of choices and practically a perfect distro for everyone. besides, whatever OS you use you've gotta learn something about it, and with Linux, you learn a little more than Windows - so what?

I was thinking about all the compiling time,

Lets daydream a little

I was wondering if you didn't have to do the compiling yourself (long time), that if you could download precompiled binaries for your system what would it be WORTH?

I was thinking about all the compiling time,

Lets daydream a little

I was wondering if you didn't have to do the compiling yourself (long time), that if you could download precompiled binaries for your system what would it be WORTH?

You can. apt-get, urpmi, rpm, etc can give you all sorts of binary apps...

Or you can get the source and compile.

You have a choice with linux and only HAVE to compile when you want the absolute latest version generally...

And as for "what would it be WORTH" (that was a select + middle-click, by the way ), I feel the source is worth much more than precompiled binaries. There's not much you can do to tweak a binary.

what about have a system that you could change the "USE" Flags and click and download a binary compiled package already.

For those that say that Linux is as easy to install and run, a wee question for you:

Could your Grandmother do it?

I've a years of experience with computers but I'm going nuts just trying to get access to the 'net (winmodem probs and I can't afford a new controlered modem) and install and run Samba.

I'm using SuSe 9.1 personal. So I've just downloaded and installed make so I can try a clean go at my intel-536ep drivers. Would your gran know to do that, or even want to?

Now, I don't mind having to learn how to do stuff and trawl through endless man pages (I was doing that years ago with Unix at Uni), but your average person on the street doesn't want to have to do that. They want to intall, check their e-mail, write a letter, and then play a wee game for half an our before making dinner. And all without having to flick though a 1000 page book to work out how to do it.

Look at it this way, do the majority of folks out there get themselves covered in grease and oil every time there's a problem with their car. Nope they take it to a mechanic because they just want the thing to drive them from A to B without having to know how the bugger works.

I'm not a great fan of M$, but there's no way I'd reccomend Linux to a friend who isn't technically minded. When I build a PC for a pal they get XP with Norton AV and Sygate Personal Firewall. They play their games and write their letters and not once do they have to go anywhere near a command line.

They seem pretty happy.

I'm going back to tinkering with Suse now.

Intuitive it's not...


Chucky

My grandmother, were she still alive, wouldn't know how to click an icon on a Windows desktop. My mother still has trouble just sending email in Windows. What's your point?

I can't imagine whats so hard about compiling from source.

Basically you only need three steps (besides uncompressing and changing directory):

./configure - configure the proper stuff and make sure everything is there, create appropriate makefiles for your system.

You don't need to even know whats going on, just type that.

make - building the source code

make install - installing desired stuff

And if you lack a library, or file, all you do is go to google.

Its really that simple.

I mean yeah, there are times ie. in mplayer's compiles when you need to change the config commandline options, to say, force the compilation of sth codec, but thats quite elementary too.

Todays easy Windows install.

Customer needs outlook. Need to start Outlook which I never do install some thingy on it so it talks to OpenGroupware.

Installs fine, but I am in internet mode make switch installer starts wrong Mapi32.dll . Try find it on the Net find several version. Do virus scans on them, install still wrong version. Try to overplay with SP1, 2 and three installer starts says is not. Wants data1.msi. Look in net Problem solution from M$ reinstall everything. Try myself with msistaller command line unpack the crap, on sibgle packages, Still zilt, nothing nada. Can't be arsed anymore go back to linux . Customer can kisss my rosy red cheeks.

guys...i'vd been in this forum, for what, one or two weeks(?) and in that one week or so i learned a lot and DEPENDED a lot...now, thanx for the eye-openers i'm willing not to depend so much and instead try surfing the net and looking for solutions instead of whining in forums and waiting for an answer...i couldn't have figured this out 'til now...
oh, btw, i started using linux last month (and BSD just last week) and a guy (who has a part in developing their own linux distro) told me about www.google.com/linux and i was thankful(very thankful) he shared it for i never knew it even exists and just this week i tried www.google.com/bsd and voila! it was real(nobody told me, just experimented)...so my bottom line is this, i was wiiling to learn and i learned, it may be slow but, at least, i'm learning something...knowledge is not a thing that can be acquired immediately, it's something that must be searched(hail!google...) and, if found, digested...this is the learning process and it's nature's way of selecting the best from the rest...

One would think so but to many (including myself) it's not that simple and I have no idea why. I have never (not an exageration) been able to install anything from source. Each and every time I have gotten an error message(s). Now I don't even bother.

I can undestand why you might have trouble with compiling...If you're missing necessary libraries, you will receive errors that may not be so easy for the average user to understand (not saying the error messages in certain other OSs are exactly clear) or deal with.
But this is why there are packages and programs to assist you with installing packages. If you don't want to compile the source, most major distros have a system which will handle dependancies for you and install pre-compiled binaries. You have that choice, which is something that makes Linux easier for the general population, yet doesn't prevent others from building from source.

I think one of the main issues that seasoned Linux users have with Linux becoming more "user friendly" is the fear of having their choices removed in favor of the newbie. I doubt this will ever happen. As long as there is a substantial number of geeks, there will be a geek OS for us.

If you're an expert with Linux and possibly a programmer to boot then you can CLI, download ISO's, RPMI new programs, handle dependancies and pre-compiled binaries to your hearts content without ever going near a manual.

If on the other hand you have only ever used your computer for Googling, emails, letters, spreadsheets, advertising flyers etc.... then you are better using an OS you're familiar with. I am not suggesting any in particular. If that happens to be Linux then great but I suspect not.

If you are a lucky person and have managed to install a distro of your choice without ever reading a manual (it is possible) and have ended up with a GUI that looks a bit like an operating system manufactured by someone called Bill Gates then you probably can't see the point of this thread.

Linux is for people who like to read and study manuals. So if your wanting to use Linux then get ready for hours of boring reading on how to boot the PC. How to shutdown the PC. How to install a program. How to get access to the internet in the first place.Don't bother thinking about Google because your PC will need an internet connection plus setting up the firewall for max security before you can go any further.

Your granny will be able to do all this if she can find her glasses and if she lives long enough.

I love this Linux as it's taken my mind of other world issues like How to feed the cat. How to mow the lawn etc...etc.....

Happy reading