Very good argument jong357. I agree with what you are saying.

@jong357, I dont' see any problem with not reading the whole thread before posting I just thought it would like some of your input after reading about some of the sutff I had to say about installing software on Linux. Basically you can get a summary of my point by just reading the background given at autopackage.org. I think the people behind that project are comming from the same exact angle as I am when I look to improve software installations and management on Linux.

I aslo agree that the more I use my Fedora Core 2 installation that the more I really like it. Mainly when I figure out how to solve the problems that I'm having such as the GUI won't do this, well I poke around and find a project where somebody else has made it happen and then if the solution is simple enough I go for it. I only wish that some of these things were fit together a little better or were at least easier to find and mangage. On top of that I still feel some things are missing that would make using Linux much more pleasent for many people and thats what I'm interested in discussing. Who knows I may find out that the solution already exists and will then pass it on to other people, or I may have to develop it myself.

I really don't understand why anybody would want to abandon Linux if easier to use tools and such were available on it. I mean even though I don't particularly like Linux distros which are made for new users as they seem to mimic windows a little too much and they lack mid-level power features in the GUI tools for the OS, but this does not make me feel that my installation of Linux is somehow tained becuase somebody else who is less intellegent is using the same tool. This concept seems silly to me.

Personally i think that linux is perfect and that it should go the course its taking now. If linux took over microsoft all the hackers would have nothing to do other than pollute linux. And its slightly non user friendlyness is simply fending off the common windows users.

hw do you man pollute linux ?

i think the evil hackers are using linux already. Especially the ones who wrote ms blaster

I have to agree. The evil hackers are already using Linux. I mean seriously...lets think about this logically.....if a person came up to me and said they were a hacker, and I asked them what operating system they used, and they said Windows, I think I would need mouth to mouth resusitation (sp) from laughing so hard. Im sorry, and no offense to anyone on this board, but I cant take any "hacker" seriously if they told me they used Windows. No disrespect meant.
much love,
nikki

I think you have to be a hacker to be into Linux. (Hacker in the orginal sense, not the media defined sense). I mean to me, Linux is hacking at its finest. (Again, not the script kiddie def)

What is "slightly non user friendlyness" about Linux. To me Linux IS user freindly and Windows isn't. But that's me, YMMV.

To me Linux isn't about being "1337" . Its not about being better than anyone else. I don't use Linux because its "cool". Its about choice, about taking back control of your computer instead of turning that control over to someone accross the globe, its about using your computer for something other than displaying cool screensavers or pretty gui. It's about basic cable, call-waiting and free trips to the salad bar. It's about everything that makes our country great! Its freedom and power all in one.

I'm one that is not afraid to see Linux change, after all, we are in control. Its only when Linux forgets it's roots that it becomes a problem.

Don't forget why you came to Linux. Unless it was to be cooler or better than everyone else. Then take another look at windows...things will be much easier in the long run.

Ok, sorry...off my soap box.

Netizen

My $0.02, I've been a Windows whore my whole life, I've just installed fedora core 1 and I am amazed at this mammoth of an operating system that lies in front of me.
Everytime I boot up the system, I am continually in awe, and respect to the programmers who have contributed to building this amazing system, from ground up.
All for no money, being open source.
Being recently jaded by the lack of goodwill I've encountered in my life, my faith has been renewed by the 'nix programmers who have contributed to this piece of art.
Cheers guys!

fedora core 1 is nice...
but fedora core 2 looks prettyer

One thing that changed about me when moving to linux, was my opinion of free software.

when i used windows, and i wanted some software off the internet. Like fotware to de-compress ZIP's i would always look for non-free software, like winzip, and try to get the registration code from somwhere.
i knew there were free alternativs, but if they are giving it away, it MUST be crap.. people dont give things away they can sell for rpofit.

then i tried linux...
the Free kernel is better than MS ever churned out !
the FREE desktop is better than any other
the Free CD-burnerd are far better than the commercial ones
the Free everything... all at a quality far greater than the most expensive closed source software.

the way that this comunity helps others, and does things for otheres not for profit, but because they can. restores my faith in mankind... lol.

I agree I've been using windows since win95 and now I use SUSE 9.1 and PCLinuxOS and am amazed at how I survived with windows all those years, but back to the subject, I think Linux is in a very good state right now, we have easy Linux such as: PCLinuxOS, Linspire, Xandros, Lycoris, Mandrake (anyothers?) Middle of the road Linux: SUSE, Fedora, Knopix, (anyothers?) and Linux for tweakers and experts: Slack, Debian, Gentoo, ect. (anyothers?) thers a flavor for everyone, if you dont like one, just move on to another, i mean common people its free (both meanings) software you cant go wrong, and if you like a particular distro by all means donate and ensure their suvival.

Hello Everybody,

I’m a super newbie, but learning fast..

Linux is great I’m now using Fedora core 2, what is as probably everybody knows a free distribution.

I live in Thailand and the government is a supporter of the open source idea, mainly because most computer users in Thailand cannot pay for legal software what cost “mostly” more then the monthly income of a computer user.

A legal license of MS Office 2003 cost around US$ 400, what is never used for the full 100% by computer users, a very good office application “Openoffice” is freely included in Fedora Linux. This software application can surely compete with MS Office.

The Thai government is planning to lance a crackdown on illegal software, what will make it, for the regular buyers of illegal software buyers more difficult to get software they normally use.

Linux is for this group of users a good alternative, the only problem is that most Linux compatible hardware is more expensive then the hardware needed for the Windows versions.

Therefore I agree that Linux needs to push fast to more support for hardware compatible and easier to use and installment for the basic beginning users.

Thailand is surely not the only country that is at the beginning of general population computer use, Linux has surely a good chance to get more users interested in countries as Thailand. But at the moment it is easier in Thailand to get one or two CD’s what includes all the Windows software what a general user will use or need.

Installation of this software in MS Windows will be easy and without any deep study of the OS.

So my idea is that if the Linux OS ever can reach’s the same level of user friendly it is a real competitor to MS Windows. In MS Windows I can install anything from A to Z with my mouse without needing to know anything about the OS. In Linux it is mostly more difficult, I installed software like Sun Java, Openoffice update and Mozilla browser 1.7 what all did not worked directly and some are still are not working because I have no idea how to remove the previous version and make the newer version work correctly.

This is all based on my own experience, even in this newbie discussion board it is sometimes difficult to get the right answers, this mostly because more expert users forget to explain that this is discussion board is for “really” newbie’s. If somebody tells me look left or right I mostly still not know for what to look for.

So told a more experience user to me to check my serial port speed, and change the speed to more a faster selection if it was 9600baud. It was a good advice, but after this useful information I had this fixed after searching Internet and reading and combining many How-To’s for 5 hours. I’m really motivated to learn how to use Linux but some potential Linux users are less egger to put so much energy into learning this basically difficult OS.

Sorry for my bad English…..

With kind regards,

Richard

@Dummy-in-Linux, THanks for your post. It really does show that Linux is a great alternative especially when the price of software is so high. When I was in Thailand the end of last year I noticed too that almost all of the computers in internet cafes were running Windows 95 and Windows 98. These machines would probably be great cadidates for Linux for a few reasons. (1) The cost is very low for the cafe owners, (2) Linux should be more stable and is still supported unlike these older OSes, and (3) Custom lockdowns are easier on specific funcationality in Linux from what I hear. The only drawbacks I would see it would be difficult for some shop keepers to learn how to install and configure, and that it seems to me that quality IMEs are non-existant on Linux.

I think that linux should be easier to use.
Not that I need it. I'm very fast at learning anything with computers, but everyone isn't.

Mandrake is going the way. It's very easy and very user friendly.
Unfortunately, I've only tried Debian (I started with this one), and Mandrake on my brothers computer. And I really think mandrake's great. It's easy to use, even for a person who don't know much about computers..

Sorry if my english isn't very good It's 1:30 and ... Must sleep ...

I am new to linux, and with just a bit of reading, I found that it is just fine. Just leave it alone.

EEK

I have been using computers since the XT. I have used early versions of Dos, up to the last one, Win 3.0, NT 3 and now have XP on my desktop. I only dabbled in linux to build a file server for my windows computers.

Personally, I found the change daunting, but in truth, much easier than the early versions of DOS. I believe the new genoration that did not experience text based computing, and have only experienced the "siver spoon" of graphic computing are at a disadvantage when changing over.

My best advice is to keep working at it. Experience is everthing. We did not have the advantage of great forums like this when we started out in computing. They are the way forward.

Yes just leave it alone, it is easy as it is, and you can do absolutly anything in Linux, which you can not in Windows, in Linux if you need something which is not part of the OS just write into the Kernel and re-compile it and bingo, now in Windows you can not write anything to the kernel, Linux you can change and totally adapt it to what you want.
I started in 1973 with computers even before the hard disk was invented the start of CPM, and later DOS, since then we have come a long way except for the speed in 1975 no GUI and max 16KB ram and CPU 4MHZ but the overall speed of exceuting programs was as fast as it is today due to to much GUI, today we have giga bytes of 233MHZ RAM and CPU's 3GHZ, and still no faster than the early computer, well I agree with gigglesnorter.