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View Poll Results: Do you want a Linux with an Interview Style Install and Setup?
I'm a newbie/novice and Yes, I love that idea. thats just what Linux needs. 906 53.83%
I'm an occassional user, I don't care either way. 222 13.19%
I'm an experience/hardcore user and I don't need it to be any easier. I am happy with it the way it is. 555 32.98%
Voters: 1683. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-24-2005, 07:52 AM   #1876
kadissie
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Location: UK
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I gave my mother a computer recently, and was debating whether I should make the effort to get M$ Windows from somewhere or install Linux, since I'm more experienced with that. Since she has little computer experience and I live far from her, I decided to go for the "simpler" option of Windows.

And what do you know? If anything goes wrong, she has to call me for help (and when I mean "wrong", I'm talking about trying to rename folders and download photos from the camera...). I might just as well have installed one of the beginner distros and configured some things the way I wanted them - then I could even download the photos from a remote connection.

Bottom line: what you're used to is easiest - although I will admit that Windows has the convenient feature that the On/Off button solves a lot of problems!
 
Old 01-24-2005, 06:58 PM   #1877
nuka_t
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the off button solves problems, the on button creates them.
 
Old 01-31-2005, 12:10 AM   #1878
bilyardman
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Real Noobie

I guess you guys want to keep this tread going.....Sooo.....While doing a search for mouse
controls....Ended up here.
Have tried Linux every year or two for the last 10 years....My thought was to get a system
going, then could learn Linux. This time I got Puppy,DamnSmall,Horry,2.02 live,Yoper,Sam,Mepis,
Suse 9.2 from norvell.
There was always some hard to cure problem....no mouse...duel boot...just error...and many
others.....but....using the Suse 9.2 has done the trick. Many distros work but most are hard for
an old man to understand....he..he....We are talking about an old guy that didn't want to get
involved with computers at all until ,after divorce,his son set up an old computer and said dad,
you need to do this....that was Christmas 10 years ago....For reference...2400baud modem.
After building 20 or 30 computers and fixing many more....think it's time to learn linux.

To get started...I have a logitech mouse with the big ball in the middle....need to change
settings......How.

TIA , B
 
Old 01-31-2005, 02:05 AM   #1879
nuka_t
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open a command prompt and type in

su
<password>
sax2

if you cant figure it out from there, well...

Edit: or do you mean remap the buttons?
 
Old 01-31-2005, 04:49 PM   #1880
bilyardman
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Posts: n/a
I want to set the top button to turn on scroll...
 
Old 02-22-2005, 10:58 PM   #1881
Francis
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I'm in agreement with most of the Linux noobs on this topic, I find Linux to be terribly tedious to use.

For instance if I want to change the resolution that X-Windows runs in, I have search through pages of readme file to find the method used to change your resolution, I have to search my harddrive until I find the XF86 whatever it is config file, I have to open it up and while reading more Readme files - decypher it and find out how it works, then I have to modify some text/code and save the changes. It initially took me hours to change the resolution on my computer, and even after finding out the process, it still takes far longer to change the resolution than it does in Windows. In Windows I simply right click on the desktop, go to properties and drag a slider thingy. In Linux everytime you want to change a setting you have to do huge amounts of research, in Windows you just poke around and work it out in no time.

Aside from the setup difficulties, Linux (or rather X) has the most basic of flaws e.g. if you're running X trying to sort something out in a shell window and want to copy an error message, you can't! You can select the text in the shell window, but you can't copy it! In Windows you can copy any old peice of text, but not in X. That's just one example of the problems I encounter almost every time I use Linux, to be fair though these are really problems with X, not the basic Linux operating system, but the problems are a real pain nonetheless.

And the problems with X aren't just X itself, so many of the programs running on X have these basic flaws aswell e.g. I was using Konkueror and trying to sort out my bookmarks, I came across the toolbars drop down menu and tried deselecting the menubar (I think that's what it's called) toolbar. The menubar disappeared, only after it had gone did I realise that there was no way to restore the menubar except by using the menubar itself which now does not exist! How retarded is that?! Now I can't reach most of the basic Konqueror options. I realise that much of Linux and the programs designed to run on it are made and maintained by generous volunteers, but sometimes I wonder if they bother thinking.

Linux gurus always seem to use the same old "It's only more difficult because it's more powerful" line and this really annoys me. While it is widely accepted that Linux is more versitile than Windows, that doesn't mean it has to be rediculously hard to use, for instance, surely a version of KDE could be made that featured the ability to change the resolution in a nice setup screen? Linux could work just the same, reading it's config file to work out what resolution you want, but instead of spending ages reading and modifying the file to change the resolution, you could have KDE change it for you, Linux wouldn't loose any versitility/power through this approach.

I also think the comment that Linux noobs get annoyed because they don't want to learn a new operating system is highly patronising. While it is true that I don't want to know for instance the workings of the XF86Config file inside out, I am certainly prepared to do a lot of learning to build an understanding of the opertating system, I would prefer however to have a general understanding of the operating systems workings and processes than an intimate understanding of every configuration file the operating system used. If I'm not prepared to learn a new operating system, then why have I spent probably hundreds of hours trying?
 
Old 02-22-2005, 11:20 PM   #1882
amosf
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1) It's different. I find windows tedious as well
2) Mandrake has a gui tool to adjust the res, just like windows. Other distros do to.
3) What do you mean? It takes only a couple of mouse clicks to cut and paste from a term?
4) The options are often there, but you need to learn where they are. This is the same with any gui. There is always some learning involved. You are just used to windows gui.
5) Linux gui is easy to use. All point and click. It's just different to windows. You have to learn it just like you learned windows.
6) People will patronize if you make false or misleading statements as you have here. You can't just say linux is hard because it is different and you haven't learned it yet. A linux user could say the same for windows if he had never used it before.
 
Old 02-23-2005, 01:05 AM   #1883
Francis
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Geeez Linux users seem to be in denial or something

I'm amazed that somebody out there actually claims (well implies) that Linux isn't harder to learn than Windows.

Well you're entitled to your opinion I suppose, I'm of the view that Linux IS harder to learn than Windows, and not just because I learned windows first.
 
Old 02-23-2005, 01:29 AM   #1884
amosf
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I have had the oportunity to sit plenty of absolute computer newbies behind newly installed mandrake distros and windows distros. There is no real difference. Try it with people with no previous experience in any PC gui...

There are a couple of difficult areas in linux. Mostly video driver installation at the moment, but then people have trouble with windows and video drivers as well... Mandrake is all point and click now, so I see little room for simple end user differences as far as normal desktop use goes.

Linux is different so much has to be relearned, and UNlearned, when making the transition... People still get on here looking for linux defrag tools, for example... Linux users never had to deal with those. Ever.
 
Old 02-23-2005, 01:36 AM   #1885
pevelius
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well, dear Francis. linux is definetly harder if you use it as windows.
i donīt get the part where you say that editing config-files is stupid. it is the best way to change stuff. they all are documented and all of them are in /etc.
just google, edit the file and thatīs it. no brains needed. and there really arenīt that many files to edit in order to get stuff running, even in worst case.
people use their computers for different purposes. for some purposes windows is better, for some purposes linux is better. thatīs why people donīt share your opinions so easily
 
Old 02-23-2005, 02:31 AM   #1886
JZL240I-U
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Well, while I don't agree with most what Francis wrote, in one thing he is dead on target: screen resolution. A gadget as simply to use as the windows resolution changer simply does not exist (i.e. a good idea for improvement).

X has also a different pilosophy: in the config file one can define resolutions and refresh rates as "hard-wired triplets" of values but there is no simple way to modify those independently. Example: my video card allows 120 hz vertical refresh and my SuSE knows that and starts the screen that way. If you want to lower that you edit the config for every resolution (e.g. to 90 hz) but then you can't go back without editing. Why are these parameters not handled independently by X?

I like Linux, but there is no merit in not acknowledging shortcomings -- how else should improvements come about?

Last edited by JZL240I-U; 02-23-2005 at 07:53 AM.
 
Old 02-28-2005, 02:18 AM   #1887
Tinkster
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Quote:
Originally posted by JZL240I-U
Well, while I don't agree with most what Francis wrote, in one thing he is dead on target: screen resolution. A gadget as simply to use as the windows resolution changer simply does not exist (i.e. a good idea for improvement).
<BEG>
I thought you're using SuSE? SAX (since 1999) (and Sax2)
do exactly that? Easy to use gadget for adjustment of resolution?

It can do even more than the windows-gadget, it can
(with certain limitations) even adjust the position of
screen and it's hight/width ;)


Cheers,
Tink
 
Old 02-28-2005, 02:30 AM   #1888
amosf
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I think both mandrake and suse have an easy to use resolution changer. It does require a root password in mandrake (MCC).
 
Old 02-28-2005, 02:54 AM   #1889
JZL240I-U
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Yes, you can change resolutions easily with SAX(2) but not indepently the refresh rate. As I wrote, these are in the config file hard-wired triplets, why not handle them independently? At first glance, what's the vertical refresh to do with resolution (yes, I know, I know they can together influence the position of the srcreen).
 
Old 02-28-2005, 04:52 AM   #1890
ahh
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I dont know which version of KDE you use, but in the KDE Control Center 3.3.2, go to Peripherals -> Display and there are options for changing the screen size, refresh rate, orientation, monitor gamma and power saving features for all the monitors attached to your pc.

p.s. For Gnome, in Nautilus, Desktop Preferences -> Screen Resolution.

I think that puts an end to this particular complaint.

Last edited by ahh; 02-28-2005 at 04:56 AM.
 
  


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