I am very pleased that this debate is civil; it has not devolved into ad hominem attacks. The discussion does seem akin to a group of Astronomers berating the Flat Earth Society(you decide who is who). Ha ha.
I'm happy to be a member of LQ.

First have my sincere apology for snipping some good stuff in the interest of brevity with which I often struggle.

Let's please stop "poisoning the well" with over-reaction hysteria just to conclude in a "reductio ad absurdum" closer. It isn't as if Trump's goal was to destroy the US Government out from under his feet. He just didn't want to stop being the one in charge no matter what the cost. It is utterly obvious by Trump's own words and actions that he would love to be "Supreme Ruler For Life" and he thinks he has the wherewithal to actually court his whims. Yes, there are news services who take a less than objective stance in reporting Trump, but the polar ends exist like that on both sides. Not only can a conscientious person view both poles and arrive somewhere reasonable there does exist Middle Ground News Services that exhibit some restraing and critical thinking and reporting.

That whole "with me or agin' me" thinking is something to be wary of because it is so obviously over simplification so desirable to despots, and any con man trying to scam or manipulate us.

If you prefer overly simple then consider Donald Trump's public statements condemning Pence to death because he wouldn't disqualify a legitimate election result. If you are among those that actually imagine Trump won, please consider that even many Republicans, by a landslide, many of whom he himself appointed and approved of, found ZERO evidence of sufficient evidence to even come close to his winning the 2020 election. Some of his purported "henchmen" even bragged about "winning even if he didn't win" as a brilliant plan.

THAT'S why he should never be President ever again, not for inciting insurrection because that may not technically and legally apply despite his saying it was one ("but my dog ate it"). It's even possible that Mr Trump doesn't deserve to be incarcerated let alone as you mockingly proposed "and shoot him in the head". However he has proven to be unfit to be US President by his own avowed actions and claims, not to mention for the very same intimations made here about Mr Biden. He does deserve to be fined and castigated. Biden hasn't done awfully bad, though the whole NATO thing has yet to play out, but at least he is consistent and doesn't seem to desire to be a despot or act like a "used car salesman" that will say and do anything he thinks at the moment if he can imagine it might please him ultimately or just right at that moment. That might work for a time in Business but it is historically and undeniably bad for the masses in Governance.

I don't want to vote for either one, although I don't even see solid alternatives at the Primary level where lowly citizens have the greatest effect. Frankly, I smell more conflict.

What about the evacuation of Afghanistan? I can understand why America wanted to exit from an unwinnable war, but the sheer incompetence with which the evacuation was carried out was mind-numbing. It made Vietnam look like strategic genius.

Exactly, American service people dead and billions of dollars of equipment left to the enemy.
@enorbet Why would you quote something that will almost certainly get this thread shut down? Strange to say the least!

"Mr. Biden wrote his 2007 and 2017 memoirs with the help of a ghostwriter. In a recorded conversation with his ghostwriter in February 2017, about a month after he left office, Mr. Biden said, while referencing his 2009 Thanksgiving memo, that he had "just found all the classified stuff downstairs." At the time, he was renting a home in Virginia, where he met his ghostwriter to work on his second memoir. Downstairs from where they met was Mr. Biden's office, where he stored his papers."
This is in 2017, before his 'memory' got so bad.

"And while reading his notebook entries aloud during meetings with his ghostwriter, Mr. Biden sometimes skipped over presumptively classified material and warned his ghostwriter the entries might be classified, but at least three times Mr. Biden read from classified entries aloud to his ghostwriter nearly verbatim."

"As he [Biden] told his ghostwriter during a recorded interview, the same staff who arranged to secure his classified notecards "didn't even know" he had retained possession of his classified notebooks. Twice in 2017, Mr. Biden visited the National Archives SCIF to review his classified notecards while writing his book. Yet he kept his notebooks, which also contained classified information, in unlocked drawers at home."

"The practices of retaining classified material in unsecured locations and reading classified material to one's ghostwriter present serious risks to national security, given the vulnerability of extraordinarily sensitive information to loss or compromise to America's adversaries."

Special Prosecutor's Report

Not only did Biden inherit the Afghanistan quagmire, it was a direct result of George W. Bush and indirectly by other Hawks previous to that. Just how does one get out of something we never should've gotten into, cleanly? BTW I've met and heard eye-witness accounts and read the numbers of and from both Americans and Vietnamese exPats who lived through the Vietnamese withdrawal debacle, and even though I don't (in my limited capacity) think Biden handled Afghanistan very well, it is spitting in the ocean compared to the mess in Vietnam. Obama tried "clean" and how did that work out? It dragged on and on and Iraq is still a bit of a mess and the cost to the US economy will be felt for a very long time, unless of course you're one of the many Republicans (and other Hawks) benefiting from pork kickbacks and profit with the likes of Halliburton.

BTW despite Trump and Pence's statements to the contrary it was Obama that provided the first half (arguably the hardest half) of the end game for IS (formerly ISIS).

'August 31, 2023, 2 years on, Afghanistan withdrawal continues to cast pall on Biden administration:
Shortly after then-Sen. Joe Biden in 2001 joined his colleagues in unanimously approving waging war in Afghanistan, he declared the effort required American boots on the ground and predicted the world would judge the U.S. harshly if it did not stay the course, allowing "the hope of a liberated Afghanistan to evaporate." ...Retired Rear Adm. Mark Montgomery, now senior director of the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies' Center on Cyber and Technology Innovation, says what he called Biden's myopic approach resulted in the president shutting out critical warnings. "In the face of significant pushback from the senior military advisers, he overrode all their concerns and recommendations, and executed an absolutely catastrophically bad policy," he argued in an interview with ABC News.' https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/2-ye...ze%20virtually

Yup. Biden is certainly guilty of "going with the flow" to serve his overall career agenda, and I agree that's not only weak, it's embarrassing if not reprehensible. That does not, however, eclipse the fact that it was Bush who led the charge. Sad to say, even Powell apparently compromised his principles and toed the line on Iraq and Afghanistan. It seems there is a lot of that going around.

I think it is rather worthy of note, if not outrage, that the last time war was officially declared by Congress, as stated in our Constitution, was during WWII. In fact 3 separate Official Declarations of War were required and enacted during WWII to add in additional States. There have been zero since.

Given your most recent post on top of each before I'm beginning to wonder since you tend to counter almost every mention of fault with Republicans with another stab at Biden, with nary a mention of so-called Conservative faults, not even recognition. So are you "Country First", "Party First", or equate the 2 as identical?

FWIW I support your right to choose as you see fit, but I would like to know where you stand, if you don't mind.

Sure, I'm a Christian conservative who tries to put GOD and Country first. That's the reason I have voted twice for Trump and will a third even if in a losing cause. I think I've indicated that both Biden and Trump are deeply flawed, as are we all. I just believe that Trump is the lesser of two evils.

Thanks for responding, mjolnir, even though I think you avoided the point of the only negative comment against Trump was included in agreeing "both are to blame" in a comment on a lesser more general indictment of much of our current Federal government, while slamming Biden on every detail you can find or drum up. I also find it odd, though certainly your right to see him as you wish, that you would stress GOD by that being the only word in all caps, yet it seems a no-brainer that Trump is not a religious guy who fails on even common quotes from the Christian Bible. So from my POV anyway, not really about God nor Country and if (and here I sympathize with the concept of what some see as "throwing votes away and actually strongly respect that stance since I've voted Libertarian several times in the past) if you really intend to stand on principle and if "the lesser of evils" is still evil, why not choose to vote for someone, anyone who is aligned with your views who is not evil?

Incidentally I am considering "throwing my vote away" once more as I don't want either of those guys President. I'll probably decide when the polls start to show if it's going to be a very tight race. If it looks like it could only go Biden or Trump on voting day, there's no way I'm voting for a guy who stated he'd want to be a dictator even if he says "for just Day 1" as I've seen that movie before too many times.

You must see something that the rest of the world doesn't.

This is what we see: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-02-...risk/103454340

Putting aside the fact that the guy is notorious for not paying his own bills, and then unironically preaches that everyone else should pay theirs, having a dictator's lapdog in charge again would be a disaster for your country as well as the rest of the developed world.

What would Ronald Reagan (the Man who stood up to the likes of Honecker & Gorbachev) say about all of this? What would our fathers, grandfathers/great-grandfathers who united to fight against this stuff in WW2 say?

I'm not saying that you should like Biden... But you surely must acknowledge the Muppet that Trump is. “Encouraging invasions of our closest allies by murderous regimes is appalling and unhinged – and it endangers American national security, global stability, and our economy at home,” White House spokesperson Andrew Bates said in a statement on Saturday.
Please don't.

Unless I have over-looked something, every comment I've made about Biden and Obama has been 'sourced.' I do understand that people may not like those sources but it is what it is. I believe the only comment I've 'drum[ed] up' is a personal, albeit, sad commentary on 'Dementia Joe.'
Because, as I've stated before: "Trump's record is also abysmal but his election MAY restore a conservative bent to (s)COTUS and for me, that is enough." https://www.linuxquestions.org/quest...ml#post5603704
Control of either the House or Senate, preferably both, would be more doable with a re-election of Trump and 4 more years might give him a shot at replacing Thomas if he retires..
Hyperbolic 'campaign speak' to a crowd, and yes, it's distastful. As I posted earlier, Presidents, any President, is already the equivalent of a dictator (for the short term) if they so choose. I notice you and others in this thread had no comment on Obama's extra-judicial killings of American citizens.
The Bible, and history, has examples of 'bad' guys being used for GOD's purposes. David, Emporer Constantine 1, Moses never entered the Promised Land for his transgressions, Jesus founded his Church on Peter (the ROCK) and in the very same chapter rebuked him for falling prey to the Devil. NO man can be completely good but even men of bad character (Trump) can serve a purpose.

I've commented, in some cases to you, several times since 2016 on Trump's foibles:
01-09-21, 06:11 PM: "I think Trump is a dullard and not a very nice man but he was one of the best Presidents in a very long time.

Edit: Both the House and Senate can set their own rules so I expect Biden to 'pack' SCOTUS with a simple majority within his first term.
Edit1: You keep hearing the word 'insurrection' because if the Congress doesn't get Trump impeached they'll use that to negate Trump in 2024." https://www.linuxquestions.org/quest...ml#post6205753

Missed the first edit, nailed the second.

09-11-16, 03:28 PM: "Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
So you think someone who is either unaware of his bias or actively lies and hides it is the lesser of evils compared to one who is more aware and says more of what they mean?
I think that statement is too simplistic to capture what I meant. I'm unabashedly a social and fiscal conservative. For me, the bedrock issue of this election is who shapes the supreme Court of the United States (s)COTUS for the next 30 years. The 2nd Amendment, that portion of the 1st Amendment concerning religion so often trampled upon by Liberals/Progressives - "or prohibiting the free exercise thereof", and many other issues dear to many conservatives are in jeopardy, IMO, with a Clinton victory.
Both of these candidates are liars but for me Hillary's documented 30 year odyssey of flip-flopping on seminal issues is stark and disqualifying. Trump's record is also abysmal but his election MAY restore a conservative bent to (s)COTUS and for me, that is enough." https://www.linuxquestions.org/quest...ml#post5603704

09-10-16, 06:29 PM: "For instance, if you actually look at the things that Lincoln said and wrote, he was every bit as much of a segregationist as G. Wallace. For me, Trump is the 'lesser of two evils' and will get my vote. I hope that doesn't tar me with the #BasketofDeplorables appellation that HRC used for approx. 23% of the American electorate yesterday..." https://www.linuxquestions.org/quest...ml#post5603405

SCOTUS is squarely bent right with a 6-3 count.

Trump's rating overall is in the bottom 5 by historians. How can both be true that "Trump's record is also abysmal" and "but he was one of the best Presidents in a very long time." Believe what you want but many of his advisors like John Bolton and Alyssa Farah Griffin have said to take Trump seriously and that is not just 'campaign speak'. I agree he was a terrible president.

It is Christian Nationalism that is more of a threat to freedom of religion and separation of church and state then the left. It is the typical us versus them as a dire threat that has to be defeated out of a moral duty to defend Christian values and prevent the nation from falling into darkness."

Hi, this came back up on my "recent posts" list and I am catching up.

Well, there is the misleading title of the original post. There were many unprofessional comments in the report that had nothing to do with the legality and would not normally occur in such a report, but if you strip those out and condense the conclusions to a single statement it would be "Biden did nothing illegal intentionally, and took the proper corrective action once issues were detected." thus resulting in no charges being recommended. There is nothing in it that presents a case that any crime was committed, willfully, by anyone.

There should also be some recognition, as there is in Main Justice, of the difference between common confidential information (such as between friends), legal confidential (as between a legal representative and their client, or a doctor and patient), and security classified confidential. The first kind is often referred to in conversation, but has not legal protections, restrictions, or requirements under the law (as do the other two). There were multiple kinds of documents referred to in this investigation, not all of which would have required protected access. Those differences matter.

I absolutely support your right to vote for the candidate of your choice. I do find it baffling that Christians would vote for a rapist. Yes, he did that. It's also likely that he'll be convicted on at least one of his 91 felony counts. Which means you'll be voting for a convicted criminal.