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Old 01-06-2021, 10:16 AM   #31
ondoho
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It looks like the democrats might win this one, and get a senate majority!
 
Old 01-06-2021, 10:19 AM   #32
hazel
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I'm not sure that's a good thing. The American system seems to work better when the president doesn't have a rubber stamp in congress.
 
Old 01-06-2021, 10:24 AM   #33
michaelk
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Maybe, If the results are less then 0.5% there will be a recount so will have to wait a bit longer officially...
 
Old 01-06-2021, 10:43 AM   #34
ondoho
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hazel View Post
I'm not sure that's a good thing. The American system seems to work better when the president doesn't have a rubber stamp in congress.
I'm not sure the alternative is better - a vengeful senate that blocks every attempt at making policy for 4 years, only tobe able to claim that the democrats failed, come next election.
I keep saying: this country needs more parties.

But incidentally you are answering the question I asked in this thread initially. Can you elaborate?

Last edited by ondoho; 01-06-2021 at 10:45 AM.
 
Old 01-06-2021, 10:50 AM   #35
hazel
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I'm no expert, but the whole idea of separation of powers seems to be designed to prevent a president from acting like a monarch.

Obviously if the opposition completely dominate congress, then you have stalemate. But a small opposition majority means that the president has to persuade a few people to switch sides on specific legislation because his proposals are actually sensible and worth passing into law. That could lead to more civilised politics.

In the UK until recently, governments could more or less steamroller their policies through because, by definition, they had a majority in the House of Commons, and there was no other source of political power.
 
Old 01-07-2021, 11:29 AM   #36
rtmistler
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Intense drama, embarrassing drama, globally.

But, GA is done, it was close and the democrats both won.

Same thing with the presidential election, finally as confirmed as officially as it can be.

I agree that there's no guarantees with a 50-50 senate. Some votes require 2/3 majority not just 'a' majority. And I've already noted before that not everyone always votes the party line.

Hazel said it similar to my thoughts, the lawmakers in general need to get along and argue their points to be able to pass legislation. And whether that be 5 parties, or even 1 party. You'd have to assume that with 535 persons, there's going to be some who disagree with a proposed initiative. So while there's general policy leanings of any given party, there's also just fundamental agreement about points. A democrat on the western coast may have far different policy concerns than a democrat on the eastern coast 3,000 miles away. It doesn't have to be cross parties to be a discussion point.
 
Old 01-07-2021, 12:49 PM   #37
DavidMcCann
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hazel View Post
Obviously if the opposition completely dominate congress, then you have stalemate. But a small opposition majority means that the president has to persuade a few people to switch sides on specific legislation because his proposals are actually sensible and worth passing into law. That could lead to more civilised politics.

In the UK until recently, governments could more or less steamroller their policies through because, by definition, they had a majority in the House of Commons, and there was no other source of political power.
The big difference in the USA is that they do not have party manifestos or even national parties. A British or German MP is elected on their party's manifesto and expected to stick to it. A US congressman makes their own pitch to the electorate. They normally have the endorsement of the local party, but Republicans in Texas are not quite the same as Republicans in Maine. There is never a guarantee that all representatives or senators from a party will toe the line, even if there's a line to toe in the first place.
 
Old 01-07-2021, 01:25 PM   #38
ondoho
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rtmistler View Post
Hazel said it similar to my thoughts, the lawmakers in general need to get along and argue their points to be able to pass legislation. And whether that be 5 parties, or even 1 party. You'd have to assume that with 535 persons, there's going to be some who disagree with a proposed initiative. So while there's general policy leanings of any given party, there's also just fundamental agreement about points. A democrat on the western coast may have far different policy concerns than a democrat on the eastern coast 3,000 miles away. It doesn't have to be cross parties to be a discussion point.
Exactly. And that scenario is the same whether you have a small democrat majority or a small republican majority.

My previous comment was extreme, just like the term "rubber stamp congress" is extreme.

Still, as a non-US resident:
I heard a political scientist here in Europe state that having the senate on your side is more important for changes to foreign policy, (new) international agreements and such.
And I believe the USA should change their foreign policy, or generally practice more multilateral foreign policy (again).

Anyhow, it's hard not to be gleeful after what Trump's party have been pulling for the past years up until this very moment.
It is rather obvious that sanity lies in the opposite direction.
 
Old 01-09-2021, 01:11 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ondoho View Post
Exactly. And that scenario is the same whether you have a small democrat majority or a small republican majority.

My previous comment was extreme, just like the term "rubber stamp congress" is extreme.

Still, as a non-US resident:
I heard a political scientist here in Europe state that having the senate on your side is more important for changes to foreign policy, (new) international agreements and such.
And I believe the USA should change their foreign policy, or generally practice more multilateral foreign policy (again).

Anyhow, it's hard not to be gleeful after what Trump's party have been pulling for the past years up until this very moment.
It is rather obvious that sanity lies in the opposite direction.
'Foreign policy' will be dictated almost entirely by Biden and his State Dept. Treaties (international agreements) will still need a 'super majority' 2/3rds vote by the Senate for ratification: 'The original Constitution requires a two-thirds vote of either the House, the Senate, or both in five situations.
They include[:]
(1) overriding presidential vetoes, Article I, Section 7, clause 2;
(2) removing Federal officers through impeachment proceedings with conviction by two-thirds vote of the Senate, Article I, Section 3, clause 6;
(3) ratifying treaties by two-thirds vote of the Senate, Article II, Section 2, clause 2;
(4) expelling members from the House or Senate, Article I, Section 5, clause 2;
and (5) proposing constitutional amendments, Article V.

In addition, the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution, ratified in 1868, disallowed anyone who engaged in “insurrection or rebellion” from holding any civil or military office unless each house removed this disability by a two-thirds vote.

The 25th Amendment, ratified in 1967, addresses the issues of presidential succession and inability. In the case of an Acting President, the House and Senate, by a two-thirds vote of each chamber, may determine that “the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office.”' https://www.senate.gov/CRSpubs/852a3...ba1d313b9f.pdf
I think Trump is a dullard and not a very nice man but he was one of the best Presidents in a very long time.

Edit: Both the House and Senate can set their own rules so I expect Biden to 'pack' SCOTUS with a simple majority within his first term.
Edit1: You keep hearing the word 'insurrection' because if the Congress doesn't get Trump impeached they'll use that to negate Trump in 2024.

Last edited by mjolnir; 01-09-2021 at 01:18 PM.
 
Old 01-09-2021, 03:01 PM   #40
michaelk
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Quote:
25th Amendment, SECTION 4. Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.
It just takes the VP and a majority of the cabinet. It is unlikely that the VP will want to invoke the 25th amendment and the idea behind impeachment I believe with so little time before the 20th will tie him up to hopefully prevent him from doing anything stupid and in addition prevent him from running for office again.

I can see this being an instant flame but the best in a very long time is a bit relative and while he did some good things the oh craps far out weighed them I can only say not really.
 
Old 01-09-2021, 05:40 PM   #41
teckk
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The Presidents approval ratings rose, when the citizens, with violence, put the swamp on notice.
https://www.rasmussenreports.com/pub..._index_history
 
Old 01-09-2021, 06:01 PM   #42
eight.bit.al
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teckk View Post
The Presidents approval ratings rose, when the citizens, with violence, put the swamp on notice.
https://www.rasmussenreports.com/pub..._index_history
One or two point changes are meaningless when the error margin is 3%. Couple that with the trend, which is more
telling than a day or two's numbers. He was already on the way up from a strong low through the end of Dec.
I'm not taking sides, just reading the data more fairly.

https://www.rasmussenreports.com/pub...ez_track_jan08

8bit

Last edited by eight.bit.al; 01-09-2021 at 06:04 PM. Reason: add my intent for posting.
 
  


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