wasnt osx supposed to be based on linux but torvalds told jobs that they couldnt d othat?

Yo nuka_t I can tell you never used a Mac.... you said no NTFS read/ write support. Well your half right you can't wright but you can read. When I fix my friends PC's i just pop their HD's into an external and plug them right into my iBook and copy all there files onto my HD. Mac's can't connect to Windows networks?!? Uh ya they can, I do it all the time maybe cause they also come with samba. You say that Apple can't read Open office doc's? Does the OppenOffice for Mac not use the same format? Well anyways the standard is Microsoft Office ( Though I prefer OpenOffice ) and Mac's are compatible with the standard but if you try to open old files (such as Works files) it won't open in Office for XP but the Mac version can open them with it's Recover Text from any file feature. You say that if Mac's had 95% of the market share then we would all have to shell out $800 and up. Umm... the reason Mac's are more expensive then PC's are because they don't have practically any market share. My point is that if Mac's were the dominant computer then they would be inexpensive compared to PC's but if that wasn't obvious i don't know what is. iTunes takes 50 MB of RAM WHAT! That is the most ignorant statement ever. They made Safari to only run on 1 MB. Come on, don't lie if you dont know ( I tested to make sure i'm not speaking just to defend Apple ) and when OS X is at a stand still it uses 124MB and when iTunes is playin a song it goes up to 140MB so it takes 16MB of RAM to run iTunes ) I have the same amount of respect for Mac and Linux I'm using Slackware for my distro( I just got a PC AMD 64 3200 2.2GHz 512MB RAM for under $1000 which is a lot cheaper than a G5 and probably just as fast) But to take Winow's side is, to me, unacceptable. They have more resources than any one. They could make an OS that blows Mac and linux away but they choose to make crap. Yes they are the best for gaming but then just go out and buy an Xbox. You say Apple is copying wow that's just plain stupid. I don't believe Apple was the father of the GUI but come on. The only thing Microsoft invented was the taskbar and the blue screen of death! XP for example is just a glorified version of Win95(Ya that's what Jobs said and i do not fully agree with that but it's pretty close) .And yes I believe that Apple probably would have come up with most, if not all, of the new features in Tiger. Most of this stuff was developed back in 95' from the NEXTSTEP OS. I just finished my first year of college and almost every person on my floor wants to buy a Mac for their next computer. I showed one kid my iBook and just a few features and he could not believe Microsoft could still be in business(Sorry that was a little off topic but hey it didn't hurt). Is it so much to ask for a computer that just works cause I know XP does not.( I got an XP machine at home and i'm dual bootin Slackware and XP on my PC i'm takin to college just to let you know i'm not just assuming this) Why would components made for XP continually cause the system to crash? They work perfectly when I boot into Linux. I'm am definitely a Mac Zealot and a linux Noob and anti Microsoft but I atleast bring facts when I argue against XP and I am fully willing to say if XP is better than Apple in a certain area. Hey if Microsoft finally put those billions to good use and made the killer OS then I would love to switch over to Windows. But they won't because they don't have to, everyday people are buying more Window boxes because they are afraid to try Linux or Mac. Choose and competition is good that's what keeps inovation going. As you can see Microsoft does not want linux or Mac around. Sorry most of my sentences don't link very well but I just wanted to bring out some points. Well this was fun last time I did something like this was when CNET bashed the 2003 iBook

ive used a mac before, i even installed osx in windows through pearpc.

i got no ntfs read/write from a mac user, so i thought theyd be right about their own system.

i said that if macs dont use opensource software they couldnt read openoffice documents. i know there is OOo for mac, but its not included with OSX.

well, apple cant become dominant by charging a lot of money for their computers. its a catch 22.

screenshots are screenshots. it said 50 something megs. too bad i dont ahave a link to it, but AFAIK, its true. im not lying. i didnt get 50 megs, but it was pretty high, in the 30's. maybe if you have a big playlist? keep in mind, this is itunes for windows.

so it took apple 9 years to implemnt their technologies? get out of the way longhorn, here comes Microsoft BoB, reincarnated.


oh come on, thats just plain fanboyness. apple copied microsoft, theyre getting cocky.

ummmm, linux vs osx, not xp vs osx. although i still would rather use xp, linux is a much more worthy competitor to osx.

cnet bashed the 2003 ibook? they used to always recommend apple products before saying they were the best. oh well, cnet sucks ass anyway. i hate it. they dissed my mp3 player. the user rating on it is 98 percent positive(last time i checked) and cnets rating is 80. they voted in favour of the one with the same sixe, 8 hours less battery life, no radio tuner or voice recorder, and no lcd that cost the exact same amount. cnet gets payed for their reviews. btw, iriver ifp 180t-mine vs creative nomad muvo.

wow, can you verify that for me.... i'd love to rub that into my OSX buddies face....

he he he - sounds pretty damn true thats for sure

- perry

the only trouble i'm having with linux is that i'm wondering what we might have left behind.... it appears qnx (www.qnx.com) has a kernel that promises maximum reponse time... as in zero delay!

anyone had any experience with this ?

a little off topic i know but it's got be a bit curious

- perry

ps.
forgive me but i dare not setup a "Linux vs. QNX" thread.....

i heard it on a forum...somewhere. im pretty sure its true though.

Sorry bud, OSX is based off of some BSD branch, not sure which one. They're cousins, though, which is more than anything can be said for Windows anything else, really....

Sorry nuka_t I didn't know you meant iTunes for Windows so you might be right (You probably are since the windows version is definitely worse than the mac version) You are right Apple can't get big if they charge a lot. They dug themselves quite a hole since people won't pay a lot for them but they need to charge more to even turn a profit . I know it was supposed to be linux vs. os X but i'm so used to people putting down apple because they use windows so all of my knowledge, or lack of, is for an Mac vs. Windows argument. Yes I am a fanboy I know I shouldn't be cause that can cloud my judgment but I try very hard to be fair. Oh and if Apple is the one copying why did this happen The link for that is http://www.apple-history.com/. I mean come on Windows didn't have a GUI till a few years Apple came out with theirs. I'm saying that if you meant that Apple has been the one copying all along. If you meant just recently with Tiger than you may be right cause I didn't know the new features of Longhorn did those things already. That's my fault for not researching it more. BTW I hate CNET too. They say some pretty ignorant things in their news, Mac and Windows stuff. Any ways this has been fun. Thanks for correcting me on my ideas hopefully I might have shown you something new too.

Your right about that, apple knew that Unix is quality enough, so they based OSX off of it..

its not the copying, its the "redmond, start your photocopiers" poster. it was pretty clever of the konfobulator guy to write "cupertino(where apple is based), start your photocopiers" on the front page of his website.

Edit: from the link you provided, it proves that apple didnt really invent the GUI



ya well im still a linux noob too, but i must say, debating linux vs osx is much better than windows vs osx. for one thing, you can shave a hundred bucks off hte price tag of a computer that you want to compare a mac to(although the dell laptop included windos xp in the rpice).

about osx supposed to be based on linux, although i dont have an article saying so, it wouldnt be very far-fetched as theyve been using linux programs like konqueror for some time now.its typical apple, they steal an idea and then accuse someone else of stealing their original idea. like spotlight, they steal it from FreeBSD and Longhorn then accuse microsoft of stealing. not only is it a blatant lie (cause microsoft implemented it into their OS 3 years before apple), it proves that history keeps repeating itself.

apple is too unprofessional to ever gain significant marketshare.their little stunts are childish as hell. the way they insult microsoft is very similair to what lindows does. microsoft never publically insults other companies.

i like linux and all, but from everything going on with longhorn, i learned to look at microsoft in a new light. theyre not the evil empir everyone makes them out to be. they are geeks bearing gifts.


as im typing, i just remembered bill gates as neo in that matrix movie in the pdc, and then some guy) comes up to him and says, just a second sir, im recompiling the kernel, and theres a picture of a penguin on the screen. btw, that movie wasnt allowed to be video taped and the only copy i saw was a crappy one with a digicam, and it was only half the movie. if anyone has the full thing, please post it(yes, i know, kinda OT)

Yes I know that Apple didn't invent the GUI and I think it was foolish for them to try to sue Microsoft. That Redmond start your copier's thing was talked about by Jobs at the conference and told everyone that it was just a little joke, nothing personal against Microsoft. The reason I back Apple on that is because they are making spotlight better than the search engine built into longhorn. That's why they made the copy comment. He and Bill Gates are actaully, somewhat, friends and they talk to each other about their new stuff fairly often. I know this doesn't show much but OS X cost $130 and XP Pro cost $400. I know that even though XP Pro, itself, costs more, a PC will still be cheaper. However, when you start going really highend the G5's cost less than the PC's. People have been going to Dell's website for a long time now doing that test and it still seems to be true. Some of the components on the G5 are so highend you can't even buy a Dell with them(obviously you could go to NewEgg and get the part there but that's not the point). Though this was a few months ago and I think now Dell might have caught up but i dont' know. And if there bearing gifts why all these curses (95 -->> XP )? When Microsoft security experts were asked about what they did for the early versions of windows they had to admit that they had NO security at all built into them. I recently went to a Microsoft presentation and was shocked at what i heard. People were asking what is Microsoft doing to fix certain problems(The main concern was Spyware )and the guy, who was very embarrassed at these questions, answered Microsoft is doing nothing at this time. WHAT! how can you be so irrisponsible. They control 95% of computers and their playing russion roulette with Windows! Like I said before, they have no excuse, they have more resources than any other company. Service Pack 2 which was delayed for quite a while breaks over 200 apps. Now I can understand that, but the fact that their Office XP Suite is apart of the apps that do not work is just plain crazy. They should and are able to make an OS to end all other OS's but they don't because if it's broken that means lots of people can make more money trying to fix it. Anyways, you said your a noob too. Ya Linux can be quite difficult sometimes and I can't always tell if i'm getting it or just running around in circles I just started fully into Slackware like a week ago and it's been goin slowly but surely, definitely no where near as smove as Windows or Mac. Well nuka_t I like your arguments because you come with facts and I so I respect you and even though we may not agree on this subject we can always agree to disagree if you like BTW what was your reason for choosing MEPIS?

"doesn't show much but OS X cost $130 and XP Pro cost $400"

xp pro costs 200( i htink it does anyway, i never really bothered looking at the price tag before "buying" it. anyway, xp home is chaper than osx, andd has everything a home user could ever want. ).

and how does spotlight improve upon winfs? if anything, winfs is better than spotlight.

sp2 wasnt delayed AFAIK, it was supposed to be relaesed in summer 2k4. and like i said above, i used sp2 and didnt have any problems. its not like my computer just stopped working. ever since i started using linux a month ago, i formatted xp and i havent been really keeping up. all i know about sp2 is what i experienced when i used the rc.

about spyware, spyware dosent really harm your computer, just slows it down and takes away privacy. i dont believe that they arent doing anything about it. ie 7 which they are supposedly making should be almost as secure as firefox in terms of spyware. its not microsofts job to make ant0spyware progs.

but again, this is linux vs osx, not whether microsoft doeas anything about spyware.

sure, when you use windows for the first time, everything works out of the box, to an extent. however, its not setting up your hardware thats a problem in windows, its removing all the crap that hp put in your computer. and that segways into why i chose mepis, it has great hardware detection. everything on my computer works without lifting a finger. osund, mouse with scroll wheel, sandisk memory card reader, monitor at max resolution, and hte video card somewhat works. its an ati, so its not exactly a walk in the park. i was going to attempt a driver install today, but i decided to put it off till tomorrow.

its on one livecd, so there isnt much to download and you can take it with you on vacation to use on random peoples computers. i used it on my aunts lappy for day to day stuff, and on my aunts her desktop cause i couldnt get the cd writer to work in windows. i just booted it up with the livecd in the dvd drive and put a blank in the cdrw drive and k3b worked fine.

because its a livecd, it has a very easy install. not only that, but the system is fullly functional during hte install. in fact i wrote a post on this thread while installing mepis.

apt however is the biggest reason. it keeps all your programs up to date with a couple clicks and it has the largest repository of any package management system. the only thing more powerful can only be portage in gentoo.

oh, and i must say, i like not being insulted and not being called a troll in pc vs mac debates.

the way i see it, no os is perfect, you have to pick hte lesser of the three evils. i would say that nader=linux, kerry=apple and bush=microsoft, but that would be too insulting to microsoft.

I totaly agree with you on that one. I use a XP disc that is just plain Windows and nothing else so luckily I dont' have that problem but I know people who do. SP2 was supposed to be released Fall 03' then delayed till May 04' then June (which is what the Microsoft guy told me) then July then August. Ya i find calling people "fanboys" and other things on forums is just stupid. Oh and since I'm a Republican I would have it Nader=Linux, Kerry=Microsoft and Bush=Apple. But that's just where we differ and I'm not getting into a political debate. BTW did you see that new version of XP (XP starter edition) that is aimed to take out Linux? That's just plain stupid if anyone buys it, way too limited.

shouldn't be

linux is to mac osx as photoshop is to microsoft paint

should be

linux is to os x as gimp is to microsoft paint

(although, there is no microsoft paint on os x?)

as far as comparing them to political candidates goes, it isn't a valid comparison....

nader typically brings in a few percent, enough to mess up either the republican or democratic hopefuls chances.

polls show GW and Kerry are about neck and neck at 50%.

I have to explain this last stat, if they only had to choose between Kerry or Bush (taking nader, et al) out of the equation.

Our country is steeply entrenched is partisan politicking. The great system our visionary forefathers had devised is under attack both from outside by terrorists and from the inside.

I often wonder if Adams, Jefferson, Washington, or Hamilton were alive today whether they would cry out of joy for where our country is or cry out of despair for where our country is.

back to the topic.

Yes, I have installed YDL on 2 diffy macs.

Both wouldn't run OS X.

Believe, the only way to truly settle this would be to take the same brand spanking new mac (ibook or whatever.)

install os x, run some benchmarks.

then install YDL or some other PPC distro and run some more benchmarks

and then compare benchmarks.

Otherwise, you're just talking opinions and spitting and urinating in the wind. (not a wise thing to do.)

Kyle

Ya the political thing realy doesn't work but it was just fun for the moment. Any way even though I swear by OS X I have heard people do switch over to linux on older equipment because it is runs faster( They installed Debian on an iBook). OS X is definitely a power hog and you need a G4 at over a 1Ghz and 192MB RAM at least to run it without obvious delays ( I have a 900MHz G3 iBook so i do notice the delays). Yes you are right we were just talking opinions and I think that most of the time that is the correct way. Because some people just don't understand Window's and so they switch to Mac and vice versa. They all can run practically the same programs and if not the same an equivalent program. It's all a matter of opinion. I hear people saying "Oh my Windows PC constantly crashes" then I also hear people say "Oh my Mac crashes but my XP machine runs fine" usually this just shows it's an operator problem. If a person is decently skilled with computing then Windows, Linux or Mac will work for them just fine. I also think that Linux vs. Mac is actually ill phrased because you could consider OS X a UNIX distro(with a premium You can download Darwin for PC too) So it's Linux vs. UNIX and I have not done my research so I dont' know which is better so I'm sure they both have their own strengths. Saying Mac's are like MS Paint is an ignorant statement. If you want to see a fair critique of OS X go to OSXvsXP this guy is definitely fair. For years XP has been beating OS X but now that Panther is out OS X has finally pulled ahead as an OS. This site is purely testing the OS not what is compatible or how much PC's cost vs. Macs. Anyway hp46168 I like what you said but I disagree with you on OS X being an inferior OS. Oh and nuka_t on that site it says XP Pro costs $289.95 so I apologize for the miss information.