LinuxQuestions.org
Help answer threads with 0 replies.
Go Back   LinuxQuestions.org > Forums > Linux Forums > Linux - Distributions > Slackware
User Name
Password
Slackware This Forum is for the discussion of Slackware Linux.

Notices

Reply
 
Search this Thread
Old 12-25-2013, 01:11 PM   #46
Didier Spaier
Senior Member
 
Registered: Nov 2008
Location: Paris, France
Distribution: Slackware{,64}-{14.1,current} on a Lenovo Thinkpad T61 6457-4XG
Posts: 4,644

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 1231Reputation: 1231Reputation: 1231Reputation: 1231Reputation: 1231Reputation: 1231Reputation: 1231Reputation: 1231Reputation: 1231

@ jtsn: thanks for your post, I need some time to properly answer it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yars View Post
I will wait when you will do upload of {contribute,menu,tools}.txt on Transifex, because the {slint,installer,package}.txt are already been translated
... And on line

Quote:
I can trace for last updates, and send the translated changelog to you, but I can't guarantee that I will do this regularly.
No problem. As a reminder, any translator registered on Transifex receives notifications for updates of files in a project as soon as he or she checks that option in Notification settings. This way you (and other members of Russian team) will know that an update is needed.

About {contribute,tools}.txt, I will wait a few days (till I receive answers to my request for comments) before uploading them. About menu.txt I have to find out the best way to format it, I hope it'll be done tomorrow night.

Last edited by Didier Spaier; 12-25-2013 at 04:59 PM.
 
Old 12-25-2013, 06:55 PM   #47
Didier Spaier
Senior Member
 
Registered: Nov 2008
Location: Paris, France
Distribution: Slackware{,64}-{14.1,current} on a Lenovo Thinkpad T61 6457-4XG
Posts: 4,644

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 1231Reputation: 1231Reputation: 1231Reputation: 1231Reputation: 1231Reputation: 1231Reputation: 1231Reputation: 1231Reputation: 1231
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtsn View Post
Delivering different content under the same canonical URL is a bad idea. It's bad for search indexing and content caching.
At the moment I'm not worried that much by search indexing of our web pages. And content caching is not really an issue here as our heaviest page weighs exactly 18,105 bytes

Quote:
And almost no end-user knows how to change the (IMHO bogus) "Accept-Language" HTTP-Header in his browser configuration. Don't let me start on mobile browsers...
We can give end-users some clues to set it as a link to this page. Also, in many cases this header is already properly set by default as it matches either language of localized OS or localized browser.

About "bogus": I have no opinion there, but in any case alas I can change neither RFC 2616 14.4 Accept-Language nor implementations of this specification by software vendors

Quote:
Best practice for international web sites is to use GeoIP detection for determining a language preset...
I have to disagree here. For instance in a lot of places in the USA you'll find that a near majority of people whose native language is Spanish (Latin America), but GeoIP will make us serve pages in US English, I assume.

Quote:
... then do a HTTP 302 redirect to the correct localized version under a distinct URI (like http://ru.slint.fr for example), accompanied by a visible option to immediately change the display language to a different one.
My web hosting plan allows me to use as many sub-domains as I want, but I have still to find how to properly use this feature, for instance storing Russian version of package.html.ru http://ru.slint.fr/package.html? Would that allow better search indexing and caching that what I do currently, i.e. store that page as http://slint.fr/package.html.ru ?
Quote:
All major players on the web handle it this way.
Well, slint won't probably become a major player anytime soon... And for website maintenance (to which I can't devote a lot of time) I'm happy just generating static xhtml pages.

Using GeoIP localization for slint.fr would mean:

* install the GeoIP app (not even sure I can do that on my shared hosting plan)
* access the free database from MaxMind, probably not as accurate as the non free one
* add some PHP code that I'll have to maintain
* a slightly slower website

Thats' not worth the hassle for slint.fr IMHO.

Slightly out of topic: this discussion reminds me of Proposed Specifications For Languages Holding I wrote a few years ago for WackoWiki. Displaying an UI or serving web pages in the proper language is not as easy as it could seem...

PS I forgot to comment this:
Quote:
... accompanied by a visible option to immediately change the display language to a different one.
Agreed, with or without GeoiIP this is useful. We have that on top of the "old" home pages. I just have to figure out where it will best fit on the new web pages. And now list of available languages differ upon page displayed, I will have to take care of that too.

Last edited by Didier Spaier; 12-26-2013 at 12:25 PM. Reason: PS added
 
Old 12-26-2013, 01:05 PM   #48
Diantre
Member
 
Registered: Jun 2011
Distribution: Slackware64 14.1
Posts: 396

Rep: Reputation: 153Reputation: 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Didier Spaier View Post
So here is a proposal, that is a request for comments (hence removing the [SOLVED] status of thus thread):
  • I upload on Transifex pages menu.txt (including the left hand menu and the top title). All translation teams are request to translate it (should take less than 5 minutes :-)
  • Each team is requested priority translate menu.txt, installer.txt, package.txt and slint.txt. As soon as that's done I do the migration old home page => new home page.
  • I upload contribute.txt, tools.txt and changelog.txt. Each team may choose to translate or not some or all of theses files, that will be put on line as soon as complete.
  • A team choosing to translate changelog.txt should be ready to update that translation very soon after an update of the original, that will be displayed instead till the translation be updated.
Sounds fine to me, Didier. I'll start translating as soon as the pages are available on Transifex.
 
Old 12-26-2013, 06:20 PM   #49
Didier Spaier
Senior Member
 
Registered: Nov 2008
Location: Paris, France
Distribution: Slackware{,64}-{14.1,current} on a Lenovo Thinkpad T61 6457-4XG
Posts: 4,644

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 1231Reputation: 1231Reputation: 1231Reputation: 1231Reputation: 1231Reputation: 1231Reputation: 1231Reputation: 1231Reputation: 1231
@ translators: eventually, template.po (name I chose instead of menu.txt as that's actually a PO file used to generate the template for all new pages with po4a) is uploaded on Transifex and ready for translation. Each and every string is commented, so you should know what to do
 
Old 12-26-2013, 11:45 PM   #50
jtsn
Member
 
Registered: Sep 2011
Location: Europe
Distribution: Slackware
Posts: 905

Rep: Reputation: 444Reputation: 444Reputation: 444Reputation: 444Reputation: 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Didier Spaier View Post
At the moment I'm not worried that much by search indexing of our web pages. And content caching is not really an issue here as our heaviest page weighs exactly 18,105 bytes
So you want to make web pages that nobody will find using search engines?

BTW: Caching has nothing to do with size at all. But with transparent proxies (they are everythere) caching one version for one user and then delivering it to another one.

Quote:
We can give end-users some clues to set it as a link to this page.
You want to make stuff complicated for users instead of just providing a page header with en|es|fr|ru and so on? Did have ever have to deal with a situation, in that you may not even be allowed to change the configuration of the browser you're currently using?

Quote:
About "bogus": I have no opinion there, but in any case alas I can change neither RFC 2616 14.4 Accept-Language nor implementations of this specification by software vendors
HTTP has a lot of features, which are not used, because they're not practical. Have you ever seen someone using HTTP 402 Payment required?

Everything that identifies a resource to be accessed has to be in the canonical URL.

Quote:
I have to disagree here. For instance in a lot of places in the USA you'll find that a near majority of people whose native language is Spanish (Latin America), but GeoIP will make us serve pages in US English, I assume.
This is not about forcing a language to someone, but start with a good guess and then allow the user to change it. Non-native speakers are everywhere, not only in the US.

Quote:
My web hosting plan allows me to use as many sub-domains as I want, but I have still to find how to properly use this feature, for instance storing Russian version of package.html.ru http://ru.slint.fr/package.html? Would that allow better search indexing and caching that what I do currently, i.e. store that page as http://slint.fr/package.html.ru ?
It is irrelevant under which filename you store something. It counts what the webserver returns on a
Code:
GET /package.html HTTP/1.1
You won't have to use sub-domains, you also can use subdirectories like /ru/package.html. But make them visible to the clients and provide links to allow changing to a different one.

Further reading:

http://www.w3.org/International/ques...t-lang-locales
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=572667

Last edited by jtsn; 12-26-2013 at 11:57 PM.
 
1 members found this post helpful.
Old 12-27-2013, 06:25 PM   #51
Didier Spaier
Senior Member
 
Registered: Nov 2008
Location: Paris, France
Distribution: Slackware{,64}-{14.1,current} on a Lenovo Thinkpad T61 6457-4XG
Posts: 4,644

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 1231Reputation: 1231Reputation: 1231Reputation: 1231Reputation: 1231Reputation: 1231Reputation: 1231Reputation: 1231Reputation: 1231
Menu and main title localized, per page available languages shown

Some updates:
  • The menu and the title in the blue header are translated (if translation of template.po is available).
  • Available languages for the displayed page are shown between the blue header and the main title if other languages than English are available for that page, so that user can just click e.g. on "ru" to display the page in Russian.
Comments are still welcome.

@yars: please try to find a shorter translation than "Исходный код страницы" for "Page source" in template.po so that the translation fits on one line in the menu.

@jtsn: I have read pages you linked me to and this discussion is interesting, thanks. For the time being we will continue to use the Accept-Language header, but at least language can now be chosen easily on each page.

Remaining open issue is indexation by search engines. Would that help to redirect localized pages, e.g. http://slint.fr/package.html.es => http://slint.fr/es/package.html?

That can be done several ways, I assume:
  • hard or soft linking the former to the latter
  • using rewrite rules in .htaccess
  • through PHP code (I'd prefer to avoid that if possible)
What do you think?

@Translators and coordinators: please communicate through relevant media in your locale about availability of the website in your language when you're ready.

Last edited by Didier Spaier; 12-27-2013 at 06:28 PM.
 
Old 12-27-2013, 07:58 PM   #52
yars
Member
 
Registered: Apr 2012
Location: Russia
Distribution: Slackware
Posts: 137

Rep: Reputation: 13
@ Didier: Done, also home page (slint.txt) needs updating. On this page one string has incomplete translation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Didier Spaier
the website
When I browse the site, all the pages are available, but if I choose the link to the untranslated page (for example, the Contribute page) the left sidebar and the top title change the its language to English, and links to another languages disappear. It's bug?

Last edited by yars; 12-27-2013 at 07:59 PM.
 
Old 12-28-2013, 05:14 AM   #53
Didier Spaier
Senior Member
 
Registered: Nov 2008
Location: Paris, France
Distribution: Slackware{,64}-{14.1,current} on a Lenovo Thinkpad T61 6457-4XG
Posts: 4,644

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 1231Reputation: 1231Reputation: 1231Reputation: 1231Reputation: 1231Reputation: 1231Reputation: 1231Reputation: 1231Reputation: 1231
Quote:
Originally Posted by yars View Post
When I browse the site, all the pages are available, but if I choose the link to the untranslated page (for example, the Contribute page) the left sidebar and the top title change the its language to English, and links to another languages disappear. It's bug?
Even if that looks weird, it's the intended behavior:
  • When pages were generated (time indicated in page's footer) , there was no translation of Contribute available, hence no links to other languages to display on this page.
  • Left sidebar and title are displayed in the language of currently displayed page. Contribute being only in English for the time being, that's English.
You can do two things to enhance the situation:
  • Keep the English name of pages in the left sidebar (in your template.po), till they are translated in your language. That way visitors won't be surprised to see these pages in English.
  • Translate theses pages (yes I know, they're not yet uploaded on Transifex, but it'll be done within 48 hours after I re-check them carefully :-).
 
1 members found this post helpful.
Old 12-28-2013, 08:19 AM   #54
yars
Member
 
Registered: Apr 2012
Location: Russia
Distribution: Slackware
Posts: 137

Rep: Reputation: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Didier Spaier View Post
Even if that looks weird, it's the intended behavior:
  • When pages were generated (time indicated in page's footer) , there was no translation of Contribute available, hence no links to other languages to display on this page.
  • Left sidebar and title are displayed in the language of currently displayed page. Contribute being only in English for the time being, that's English.
Okay, no problem Let it continue to remain.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Didier Spaier View Post
You can do two things to enhance the situation:
  • Keep the English name of pages in the left sidebar (in your template.po), till they are translated in your language. That way visitors won't be surprised to see these pages in English.
  • Translate theses pages (yes I know, they're not yet uploaded on Transifex, but it'll be done within 48 hours after I re-check them carefully :-).
Obviously, I choose a 2nd variant I can to wait.
 
Old 12-28-2013, 04:31 PM   #55
Didier Spaier
Senior Member
 
Registered: Nov 2008
Location: Paris, France
Distribution: Slackware{,64}-{14.1,current} on a Lenovo Thinkpad T61 6457-4XG
Posts: 4,644

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 1231Reputation: 1231Reputation: 1231Reputation: 1231Reputation: 1231Reputation: 1231Reputation: 1231Reputation: 1231Reputation: 1231
All new pages now uploaded to Transifex

Quote:
Originally Posted by yars View Post
Obviously, I choose a 2nd variant I can to wait.
Go!

PS Pages Contribute and Tools have been updated

Last edited by Didier Spaier; 12-28-2013 at 04:35 PM.
 
Old 12-29-2013, 01:38 AM   #56
yars
Member
 
Registered: Apr 2012
Location: Russia
Distribution: Slackware
Posts: 137

Rep: Reputation: 13
@ Didier: typo in Contribute page:
Quote:
All new pages are generated using application http://asciidoc.org['asciidoc'], included in Slackware (shipped in package linux-docs)
Maybe you want to say, "...in package linuxdoc-tools"?
 
1 members found this post helpful.
Old 12-29-2013, 02:09 AM   #57
Didier Spaier
Senior Member
 
Registered: Nov 2008
Location: Paris, France
Distribution: Slackware{,64}-{14.1,current} on a Lenovo Thinkpad T61 6457-4XG
Posts: 4,644

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 1231Reputation: 1231Reputation: 1231Reputation: 1231Reputation: 1231Reputation: 1231Reputation: 1231Reputation: 1231Reputation: 1231
@ yars: yes, fixed, thanks.
 
Old 12-29-2013, 07:21 PM   #58
Diantre
Member
 
Registered: Jun 2011
Distribution: Slackware64 14.1
Posts: 396

Rep: Reputation: 153Reputation: 153
Hello. I just finished translating "contribute.txt" and have a few suggestions:


Quote:
These pages, as well as https://www.transifex.com/projects/p...ce/templatepo/[template.po] (used to generate translated top title and left sidebar of web pages) should priority be translated.
Maybe it should say: "...should be given priority..." or "...should be translated with priority...".



Quote:
NOTE: For a given language, when translating templatete.po it's better to leave in English names
Just a typo: template.po



Quote:
In all cases, I recommend that at one person be responsible for organizing...
That probably should read: "...that at least one person..."


Quote:
The translation should or not begin or end with a "new line" (or line feed) character, represented by "\n", exactly as the original text does.
I'm sorry, perhaps it's just me, but this phrase is slightly confusing. I'd express it differently, maybe like:
The translation text should include a "new line" character (or line feed, represented by "\n") at the beginning or at the end, exactly as the original text does. Conversely, if the original text doesn't have the character, then the translation shouldn't have it.
Or,
If the original text contains a "new line" character (also called "line feed", represented by "\n") at the beginning or at the end, the translation should also include it.

Quote:
== Practical recommendations for translators.
I'd remove the last dot, all other headers don't have it.


Quote:
* a single backslash character "\" is not allowed in the translation.
Just an uppercase "A" as in "A single backslash..."
 
1 members found this post helpful.
Old 12-30-2013, 06:25 AM   #59
Didier Spaier
Senior Member
 
Registered: Nov 2008
Location: Paris, France
Distribution: Slackware{,64}-{14.1,current} on a Lenovo Thinkpad T61 6457-4XG
Posts: 4,644

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 1231Reputation: 1231Reputation: 1231Reputation: 1231Reputation: 1231Reputation: 1231Reputation: 1231Reputation: 1231Reputation: 1231
Thanks Diantre, page updated in Transifex.

I firsts uploaded http://slint.fr/contribute.html.es in its current state so that you can easily get back old translations of edited strings.
 
Old 12-30-2013, 12:36 PM   #60
yars
Member
 
Registered: Apr 2012
Location: Russia
Distribution: Slackware
Posts: 137

Rep: Reputation: 13
Didier, in the phrase
Quote:
Note: To run the installer in a virtual machine you can use directly file ending in .iso as virtual media, no need to burn it on a physical media in that case.
from tools.txt, maybe the "Note" should be a tag "NOTE" for asciidoc?
And in this file, we have a duplicated strings:
1)
Quote:
If you click on "Page Source" at the bottom of one new web page's menu, that will display the corresponding source text file.
2)
Quote:
* If you click on "Page Source" at the bottom of one new web page's menu, that will display the corresponding source text file.
The 1) need to remove?

Last edited by yars; 12-30-2013 at 12:55 PM.
 
1 members found this post helpful.
  


Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
LXer: Linux Users Still Left Out, Why Source Code Matters to End Users LXer Syndicated Linux News 0 10-15-2009 11:51 PM
LXer: End Users Meet Year End LXer Syndicated Linux News 0 09-30-2009 11:50 PM
BASH/No X: Using google translate to convert TXT files (translate) frenchn00b Programming 10 09-13-2009 11:55 PM
Where do pages for website go on server mulciber Linux - Networking 3 03-30-2006 09:47 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:33 PM.

Main Menu
My LQ
Write for LQ
LinuxQuestions.org is looking for people interested in writing Editorials, Articles, Reviews, and more. If you'd like to contribute content, let us know.
Main Menu
Syndicate
RSS1  Latest Threads
RSS1  LQ News
Twitter: @linuxquestions
identi.ca: @linuxquestions
Facebook: linuxquestions Google+: linuxquestions
Open Source Consulting | Domain Registration