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Old 12-21-2013, 02:27 AM   #1
Didier Spaier
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Best way to translate new pages intended for end users of slint website?


Among others, Slint's website project has new pages intended for end users, as announced in this other thread:
Home, Slint installer and Slint package.

These pages need to be translated in at least languages available in Slint installer (French, German, Polish, Portuguese, Russian and Spanish at time of writing, at least one other coming soon).

They are generated using "asciidoc" (included in Slackware), from source files that you can display in clicking "Page Source" on each of them. I tried to make PO files of both source files and corresponding web pages using application "po4a" but was not satisfied of the result.

So here is my proposal:
  1. The 3 source files (ending in .txt) are uploaded in Transifex, in "plain text" format.
  2. Translators download files for their language and translate them locally using their preferred text editor.
  3. Translators upload fully translated files to Transifex.
  4. Maintainer build corresponding web pages with a simple asciidoc command (e.g. Russian translation of package.txt would become package.html.ru) and upload them on the website.
Rationale:
  • "asciidoc" text format is easy to learn, see http://asciidoc.org. In addition, I would add basic information and pointers to Tools page.
  • This would allow translators to "customize" the Home page, for instance adding where end users can find help in their own language.
  • We still would use some Transifex "collaborative" features, like sending/receiving files
  • I hope that changes in English source files will be propagated to localized ones (I will try).
  • It will be easy for translators to check their translation "live", just downloading full content of directory website/, putting their source file in it and doing what's suggested in the README there.
Please all translators, let me know your thoughts about this proposal.

PS I will make some tries with Transifex but you may wait to use files there that we agree on the procedure and bugs are fixed in the web pages in English. By the way, please all readers report in this thread all bugs, typos, and other suggested edits to these pages that you can see. English is still not my native language...

Last edited by Didier Spaier; 12-21-2013 at 03:30 AM. Reason: Broken links fixed
 
Old 12-21-2013, 04:42 AM   #2
someone named bert
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yars View Post
To prevent slackpkg to remove Slint package, add a line to /etc/slackpkg/blacklist...
this should say
Quote:
To prevent slackpkg from removing the Slint package, add a line to /etc/slackpkg/blacklist...
(please note I'm also not a native english speaker, plus I don't use slackpkg)

Some more:
Quote:
Slint package contains polyglot tools and translation files.
Could be
A Slint package contains ...
or
Slint packages contain ...

Quote:
At time of writing following languages are included: French, German, Polish, Portuguese (Brasil), Russian and Spanish (Latin America).
should be:
At the time of writing the following languages ...

Quote:
Some manual pages are also translated in other languages, as indicated in MAN_PAGES.TXT.
should be
are also translated to other languages

There's more, but it's too stressful this way, I'll wait for the proper source files.

Last edited by someone named bert; 12-21-2013 at 04:52 AM. Reason: adding stuff
 
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Old 12-21-2013, 05:08 AM   #3
gabrielmagno
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I liked the idea of using asciidoc as source for the web pages. I've nerver used it, but it seems to be very extensible and versatile.

I'm only worried with the propagation of modifications in the english originals. It may be hard for translators to identify what has really changed. What are the plans for that?
 
Old 12-21-2013, 05:12 AM   #4
sycamorex
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Didier Spaier View Post
Among others, Slint's website project has new pages intended for end users, as announced in this other thread:
Home, Slint installer and Slint package.

These pages need to be translated in at least languages available in Slint installer (French, German, Polish, Portuguese, Russian and Spanish at time of writing, at least one other coming soon).

They are generated using "asciidoc" (included in Slackware), from source files that you can display in clicking "Page Source" on each of them. I tried to make PO files of both source files and corresponding web pages using application "po4a" but was not satisfied of the result.

So here is my proposal:
  1. The 3 source files (ending in .txt) are uploaded in Transifex, in "plain text" format.
  2. Translators download files for their language and translate them locally using their preferred text editor.
  3. Translators upload fully translated files to Transifex.
  4. Maintainer build corresponding web pages with a simple asciidoc command (e.g. Russian translation of package.txt would become package.html.ru) and upload them on the website.
Rationale:
  • "asciidoc" text format is easy to learn, see http://asciidoc.org. In addition, I would add basic information and pointers to Tools page.
  • This would allow translators to "customize" the Home page, for instance adding where end users can find help in their own language.
  • We still would use some Transifex "collaborative" features, like sending/receiving files
  • I hope that changes in English source files will be propagated to localized ones (I will try).
  • It will be easy for translators to check their translation "live", just downloading full content of directory website/, putting their source file in it and doing what's suggested in the README there.
Please all translators, let me know your thoughts about this proposal.

PS I will make some tries with Transifex but you may wait to use files there that we agree on the procedure and bugs are fixed in the web pages in English. By the way, please all readers report in this thread all bugs, typos, and other suggested edits to these pages that you can see. English is still not my native language...
Yep. I like the idea.
 
Old 12-21-2013, 05:16 AM   #5
Didier Spaier
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@ someone named bert: all fixed, thanks.
 
Old 12-21-2013, 05:25 AM   #6
Didier Spaier
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gabrielmagno View Post
I'm only worried with the propagation of modifications in the english originals. It may be hard for translators to identify what has really changed. What are the plans for that?
I agree that's an open issue. Let's make some tests to find out if/how we can close it. I'll upload package.txt on Transifex, download the translation file for French generated by Transifex, translate it, upload the translation, then make some changes in the source file, upload it and see what happens to translated file.

@ Yars: as you're done translating this one, maybe you could participate in testing?
 
Old 12-21-2013, 01:07 PM   #7
Didier Spaier
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The show can go on, but please wait a moment.

Here are my findings.
  • My idea of translating locally was a bad one, as when uploading the translation, Transifex complains that number of strings is not the same as in the source file (maybe even if that's not true)
  • Using Transifex on line editor instead is OK as you can input new sentences or even paragraphs in the translated text without Transifex complaining, which allows customization: you wil be able to add information specific to your locale.
  • Propagation of modifications in the English original is correct. New or edited strings will just appear as untranslated in translation files (not to retype translation of an edited string, just keep a backup, copy old translation from it and edit it)
  • Of course translators will have to be very careful managing asciidoc markup, but that's feasible and I'll provide advises about that in page Tools.
Also, good news: we will be able to use content negotiation for these pages, e.g someone loading "Slint package" will see it in his or her preferred locale, provided translation be available and user's browser be properly set to preferably display pages in this language.

To do that I'll just have to rewrite all web pages' names in asciidoc files, removing the ".html" extension (including in the menu). EDIT: no, in fact I just had to rename English pages as <pagename>.html.en, and name localized ones <pagename>.html.<otherlanguagecode>, all links still ending in .html. Oh well, I should have remembered that...

I'll need some time to do these changes and write specific instructions, so please don't hurry to translate if you want to avoid further editing.

In the mean time, please report corrections to English pages that are still needed.

Last edited by Didier Spaier; 12-22-2013 at 11:03 AM. Reason: EDIT added
 
Old 12-21-2013, 04:08 PM   #8
yars
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@ Didier: Yes, I can to participate. Another bug found:
Code:
|setconsolefont|Configure the console mouse support
At this time re-translation and local testing of package.txt that was uploaded by you on Transifex is already done, but I have a trouble with different numbers of strings when I tried to upload the translated file back. For this reason, I used online Transifex editor and I just copy&paste translated strings from local file to this. Yes, it's hard, but I have no any suggestions...

Last edited by yars; 12-21-2013 at 04:12 PM.
 
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Old 12-21-2013, 04:17 PM   #9
Didier Spaier
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@ Yaroslav. I can't say a thing about translation in Russian but at least your page looks good and links in it work, so thanks!

Thanks for the bug report as well, I'll fix it soon.

EDIT. Done.

Keep up the good work

Last edited by Didier Spaier; 12-21-2013 at 04:47 PM.
 
Old 12-22-2013, 03:03 AM   #10
bormant
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@ Didier:
please note repeated "if" typo "If if you had ..." in package.txt on Transifex.

Last edited by bormant; 12-22-2013 at 03:04 AM.
 
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Old 12-22-2013, 03:25 AM   #11
Didier Spaier
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@ bormant:
Fixed on Transifex and on the website, thanks Serg.

@ All: Tip:
Such a change erase corresponding string in translation files, but you can copy old version of translated string from translated page on the website, paste it to Transifex and edit it if need be.

Last edited by Didier Spaier; 12-22-2013 at 07:03 AM.
 
Old 12-22-2013, 11:29 AM   #12
yars
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Possibly I found a typo in the contribute.txt (currently I will do translation it) : "Slint package but man pages". Maybe this should be "Slint package but without man pages"?
Also, in the package.txt in which text "...be careful to check 'only' those whose names contains \'slint\'" the 2nd backslash is not needed, that is displayed on the web site as "'slint\'".
 
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Old 12-22-2013, 12:37 PM   #13
Didier Spaier
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yars View Post
Possibly I found a typo in the contribute.txt (currently I will do translation it) : "Slint package but man pages". Maybe this should be "Slint package but without man pages"?
Good remark. I Just wrote "(without man pages)" instead.
Quote:
Also, in the package.txt in which text "...be careful to check 'only' those whose names contains \'slint\'" the 2nd backslash is not needed, that is displayed on the web site as "'slint\'".
Yes. You understand well asciidoc syntax, congrats.

I'd suggest priority translate pages intended for end users, that I will upload on Transifex in a few minutes and that will be named slint.txt (the new home page) and installer.txt, in addition to package.txt.

As soon as each team will be done translating those three (slint.txt, installer.txt and package.txt) I will do a "migration", renaming for instance slint.ru.html to index.ru.html. This way people accessing the website either from index.html.ru, or from index.html with their browser set to prioritize Russian language, will directly access new pages. EDIT, previous sentence corrected, e.g.s/slint.html/index.html).

Also, I'm now editing contribute.txt and tools.txt to add a few instructions for asciidoc files.

In my opinion for pages that are being intended for translators (Contribute, Tools, and Translators), translation in not mandatory. Advices on that?

Last edited by Didier Spaier; 12-22-2013 at 01:40 PM. Reason: minor edits
 
Old 12-22-2013, 02:12 PM   #14
yars
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Quote:
n my opinion for pages that are being intended for translators (Contribute, Tools, and Translators), translation in not mandatory. Advices on that?
Why not? In case if these pages will have a changes permanently, we may just actualize the translations, I think, it is not a big problem. Also, translation of Contribute page already is begun, I'd not want to drop these.
Quote:
I'd suggest priority translate pages intended for end users
Okay, I will temporarily stop the translation of pages for contributors, and start the translation of pages for end-users.
 
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Old 12-22-2013, 05:46 PM   #15
Didier Spaier
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yars View Post
Why not? In case if these pages will have a changes permanently, we may just actualize the translations, I think, it is not a big problem. Also, translation of Contribute page already is begun, I'd not want to drop these.
Well, writing "not mandatory" I certainly didn't mean "forbidden" I will gratefully accept any translated web page and upload it on the website. I just wanted to make sure that translators consider translating the other ones a priority.

@ All: I am done including instructions and tips for these pages in Contribute and Tools and three files are uploaded on Transifex (remaining ones will come a little later), so I'm marking this thread as [SOLVED].
 
  


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