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Old 08-06-2007, 07:18 PM   #46
perry
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Thumbs up Update on HAL & Slackware 12


While I haven't totally isolated what might have caused some of the toothing problems with 12 & HAL, I went thru the process of re-installing *everything* today (had to, i wanted to compile kernel for AMD/VIA_K8) on a larger partition. While that might have sounded like a *pain* in the you-know-where, it was actually quit straight forward given that I just happen to have placed all by installation files for the last round nicely on my external hard disk for future reference. Take a look:
Code:
perry@slackware:/mnt/maxtor/installations$ ls slackware12 -la
total 1000
drwxr-xr-x 14 root root   4096 2007-08-06 16:42 ./
drwxr-xr-x  3 root root   4096 2007-08-03 23:41 ../
drwxr-xr-x  4 root root   4096 2007-08-06 16:26 ati/
drwxr-xr-x  3 root root   4096 2007-08-06 15:56 dropline/
drwxr-xr-x  4 root root   4096 2007-08-06 16:51 etc/
drwxr-xr-x  2 root root   4096 2007-08-03 23:49 flashplayer/
drwxr-xr-x  2 root root   4096 2007-08-06 16:43 gkrellm2/
drwxr-xr-x  3 root root   4096 2007-08-06 13:26 how-to/
drwxr-xr-x  3 root root   4096 2007-08-04 17:33 ignore/
drwxr-xr-x  3 root root   4096 2007-08-03 23:48 kernel/
drwxr-xr-x  2 root root   4096 2007-08-05 10:36 ntfs-3g/
-rwxr-xr-x  1 root root 962604 2007-08-02 20:16 simplylinux.txt*
drwxr-xr-x  4 root root   4096 2007-08-05 22:11 slackware/
drwxr-xr-x  3 root root   4096 2007-08-06 15:36 swaret/
drwxr-xr-x  3 root root   4096 2007-08-06 16:50 wireless/
perry@slackware:/mnt/maxtor/installations$ ls slackware12/slackware -la
total 1914156
drwxr-xr-x  4 root root      4096 2007-08-05 22:11 ./
drwxr-xr-x 14 root root      4096 2007-08-06 16:42 ../
-rwxr-xr-x  1 root root 669159424 2007-07-25 23:06 slackware-12.0-install-d1.iso*
-rwxr-xr-x  1 root root 671725568 2007-07-25 23:08 slackware-12.0-install-d2.iso*
-rwxr-xr-x  1 root root 619169792 2007-08-05 17:04 slackware-12.0-install-d3.iso*
drwxr-xr-x  2 root root      4096 2007-08-05 19:20 slackware-12.0-iso/
-rwxr-xr-x  1 root root     16455 2007-08-03 14:05 thequiet.html*
drwxr-xr-x  2 root root      4096 2007-08-05 22:35 torrent/
SO!!! I now got a brand new install on a 8 gig partition which should be plenty for custom kernel compilations...

At the present moment, HAL seems to be better behaved, it *seems* be letting me do things like:
Code:
/dev/sdd1        /mnt/xcraft1     ntfs-3g       defaults  1   0
/dev/sdd2        /mnt/xcraft2     ntfs-3g       defaults  1   0
/dev/sdd5        /mnt/xcraft5     reiserfs      noauto,owner,users,exec  1   0
/dev/sdd6        /mnt/xcraft6     reiserfs      noauto,owner,users      1   0
/dev/sdc1        /mnt/flashcard   auto          noauto,owner,users      1   0
/dev/sda1        /mnt/maxtor      vfat          noauto,owner,users      1   0
And not change the *sd?* assignments on me after every reboot! Not completely sure it's not going to try that again on the next reboot but I'll keep you posted. Other than gkrellm not being able to pain with gkrellkam it looks like I got 99.99% improved functionality. Upgrading to Slackware 12 has proved *VERY* good for me. And I must say I do love some of the new multimedia niceties like Amarok and ofcourse downloading and installed Dropline was the icing on the cake. Without dropline, Slackware 12 is *challenged* in the fonts department.

So it looks like Slackware can go without Gnome about as much as the Queen can go without her crown... (check it out)

Cheers

- perry
 
Old 08-06-2007, 07:29 PM   #47
mscole
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Quote:
An ext3 filesystem contains it's permissions, unless you set gid and uid in fstab, it will mount and use the owners it currently has. Just mount it, chown with root to your user, umount and mount again.
gbonvehi, thanks for the tip, it solved my problem.
Mike.
 
Old 08-09-2007, 12:22 PM   #48
tamtam
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CHANGES_AND_HINTS.TXT

Forgive my ignorance, where is the above file.
 
Old 08-09-2007, 12:35 PM   #49
pappy_mcfae
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Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by tamtam
CHANGES_AND_HINTS.TXT

Forgive my ignorance, where is the above file.
That file is in the root directory of the install DVD. It is also *probably* in the root directory of install CD#1, but don't quote me on that as I only have the install DVD as a reference. It's well worth the read. Hope that helps.

Blessed be!
Pappy
 
Old 08-09-2007, 01:02 PM   #50
tamtam
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thanx pappy
 
Old 08-09-2007, 02:53 PM   #51
onebuck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tamtam
CHANGES_AND_HINTS.TXT

Forgive my ignorance, where is the above file.
Hi,

You can read online the Slackware 12.0 CHANGES_AND_HINTS.TXT, UPGRADE.TXT and RELEASE_NOTES!
 
Old 08-10-2007, 01:31 PM   #52
pappy_mcfae
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Post Back in the Slack-12 fray.

After reading many posts on Slack-12 and the seeming horror that is hal, I decided perhaps I should set Slack-12 up again and see if any of the given problems with Slack-12 can be exorcised. I did succeed on getting one problem removed.

As I had said somewhere back in this thread, I installed Slack-12 on my Toshiba Laptop. When I went to start KDE, the display would go haywire. I did it again, and the same problem occurred. After a bit of playing, I discovered that for some reason, xorg.conf has to be manually edited to change "VertRefresh 50-70" to "VertRefresh 60" under the Identifier "My Monitor" section. That got KDE up and running. I didn't have to do this under Slack-11 for either laptop. Curious.

Now, as to the bugs that others have listed with Slack-12
a) strange fonts: yes, more so in Firefox, but I haven't checked out every program yet.
b) alsa/sound problems: no, the sound is working fine.
c) hal problems: yes.

Right now, hal seems to not be loading at all, at least to the point where it affects the view under konqueror. The rc.hald, rc.messagebus, and rc.udev files are all set to executable. I also get indication at boot time that each of these files is loading. However, when it comes time for me to be shown that hal is actually doing anything, I see no proof.

The hard drives show up as hda1, hda3, and hda5 instead of "Forty gig media", and so on. The icon for the CD ROM drive only appears when its line in fstab is uncommented. In other words, to my rather untrained eye, it appears as if hal set up improperly out of the box.

Speaking of hal problems and their solutions, I set up a non-root user to see if this would allow me to access resources glommed onto by hal. No dice. The only difference between konqueror under the new non-root account is I can't get to the NTFS partition on this hard drive. Nothing else konqueror or hal-wise changed. I installed a 2.6.22.1 version kernel (precompiled when this machine was running Slack-11), and still no hal operation.

So, I remain fairly unimpressed. I will keep this install of Slack-12 set up until I see a real solution to the hal problem. So far, none of the things listed here have worked to any degree, but hope springs eternal!

Blessed be!
Pappy
 
Old 08-10-2007, 08:24 PM   #53
rkelsen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pappy_mcfae
The icon for the CD ROM drive only appears when its line in fstab is uncommented.
Hey Pappy,

With HAL operating, the default KDE configuration doesn't show a CD icon at all. To change the setting, all you need to do is this:

Right click (on a bare desktop) -> Configure Desktop -> Behaviour -> Device Icons -> Tick "Mounted Removable Medium"

If you want it to show the CD icon all the time (whether mounted or not), you'll also need to tick "Unmounted Removable Medium".

Otherwise, if you leave the CD ROM line in fstab uncommented, HAL won't touch it and you'll be able to add a "Link to device" to your desktop and access it as you would previously.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pappy_mcfae
I set up a non-root user to see if this would allow me to access resources glommed onto by hal. No dice.
Permission problems are generally solved by adding your user to the necessary groups. For example, you might consider adding your user to the 'disk' group if you want to be able to access every hard drive partition in your system.

There are some standard groups which your user is added to upon logging in to runlevel 3, but upon logging into runlevel 4, these standard groups are ignored for whatever is contained in the group configuration file. So it is imperative that your user is 'formally' added to the groups that you wish to be in upon logging into the GUI.

If you can't access a particular device as a normal user, you can find out the ownership of the device node (under /dev) and add yourself to the group that 'owns' the device. Beware that there can be many symlinks under /dev. If you come across any of these, you should check the ownership of the file to which the link points. Don't add your user to the 'root' group.

I hope all this has been helpful. Have fun with it!
 
Old 08-10-2007, 09:31 PM   #54
T3slider
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Well, HAL worked perfectly out of the box for me (I didn't even add myself to the cdrom and plugdev groups -- I have since added myself to those groups just in case, and it still works fine). I read all of the HAL threads before installing Slackware 12.0 and was expecting a big hassle, but it was trouble-free for me. I don't know why everyone else is having such difficulty (I guess I'm just lucky -- really. I built a PC from parts without even considering linux compatibility and everything has worked perfectly without any problems. Now THAT'S lucky).
 
Old 08-10-2007, 11:45 PM   #55
pappy_mcfae
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Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by rkelsen
Hey Pappy,

With HAL operating, the default KDE configuration doesn't show a CD icon at all. To change the setting, all you need to do is this:

Right click (on a bare desktop) -> Configure Desktop -> Behaviour -> Device Icons -> Tick "Mounted Removable Medium"

If you want it to show the CD icon all the time (whether mounted or not), you'll also need to tick "Unmounted Removable Medium".

Otherwise, if you leave the CD ROM line in fstab uncommented, HAL won't touch it and you'll be able to add a "Link to device" to your desktop and access it as you would previously.
I did that. The only way I can get the CD to actually mount is to manually mount it. The CD icon now shows up on the desktop, but it is inaccessible until it is mounted in a konsole session.

Now, for some reason, even though it is invoked at boot time, hal isn't working. I have done nothing other than uncomment the cdrom line in fstab. Even when it gets re-commented, hal remains inactive.

Quote:
Permission problems are generally solved by adding your user to the necessary groups. For example, you might consider adding your user to the 'disk' group if you want to be able to access every hard drive partition in your system.

There are some standard groups which your user is added to upon logging in to runlevel 3, but upon logging into runlevel 4, these standard groups are ignored for whatever is contained in the group configuration file. So it is imperative that your user is 'formally' added to the groups that you wish to be in upon logging into the GUI.

If you can't access a particular device as a normal user, you can find out the ownership of the device node (under /dev) and add yourself to the group that 'owns' the device. Beware that there can be many symlinks under /dev. If you come across any of these, you should check the ownership of the file to which the link points. Don't add your user to the 'root' group.

I hope all this has been helpful. Have fun with it!
Not really, but that's neither here nor there. While it's not Slack 11, I have worked with worse distros. I can get around most of the bugs. However, I still think for all the buzz, it's not what I would expect. The concept for hal is noble; however, IMHO, in practice, it's still got a way to go.

Blessed be!
Pappy
 
Old 08-11-2007, 12:13 AM   #56
T3slider
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pappy_mcfae
The concept for hal is noble; however, IMHO, in practice, it's still got a way to go.
Once you get it working, I don't think there's much room for improvement. Again, works perfectly here. The cdrom line in fstab must be commented for HAL to automount CDs. You should create a non-root user (this is standard fare -- you really shouldn't be using root as your everyday user. Even if you su to root half the time it's still better to use a non-root user) and add that user to the cdrom, plugdev, audio and video groups, as already stated (do not rely on the output from `groups` -- make sure to manually add the user to these groups). Make sure the mount icon behaviour is checked in KDE. Make sure /etc/rc.d/rc.hald, /etc/rc.d/rc.udev, and /etc/rc.d/rc.messagebus are all executable (chmod 755 /etc/rc.d/hald, etc). It should work after all that is done.

I'm sure you have done most of these things; I'm just trying to ensure that you try everything before giving up. Unless your Slackware 12.0 is completely different from my fresh Slackware 12.0 (did you upgrade or do a fresh install?), it should work.

As for your problem with your LCD screen, that seems to be common -- I always use xorgconfig which pretty much avoids that problem.
 
Old 08-11-2007, 11:51 AM   #57
pappy_mcfae
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Post A reply...

Quote:
Originally Posted by T3slider
Once you get it working, I don't think there's much room for improvement. Again, works perfectly here. The cdrom line in fstab must be commented for HAL to automount CDs. You should create a non-root user (this is standard fare -- you really shouldn't be using root as your everyday user. Even if you su to root half the time it's still better to use a non-root user) and add that user to the cdrom, plugdev, audio and video groups, as already stated (do not rely on the output from `groups` -- make sure to manually add the user to these groups). Make sure the mount icon behaviour is checked in KDE. Make sure /etc/rc.d/rc.hald, /etc/rc.d/rc.udev, and /etc/rc.d/rc.messagebus are all executable (chmod 755 /etc/rc.d/hald, etc). It should work after all that is done.
None of this is new to me, and as I already said, the above listed .rc files are executable, and yet it appears as if hal is not working. I know it should work, but trust me, it's not. For some reason, after upgrading to my custom compiled kernel (2.6.22.1, compiled when this machine was running Slack-11), hal has apparently stopped working. I went over the kernel setup, and I saw nothing on the surface that would prevent hal from working, but it's still not working. If someone knows which options need to be compiled into a kernel to make hal come back to life, I'd be interested in hearing what options to set to bring hal back to life.

Quote:
I'm sure you have done most of these things; I'm just trying to ensure that you try everything before giving up. Unless your Slackware 12.0 is completely different from my fresh Slackware 12.0 (did you upgrade or do a fresh install?), it should work.
Yes, I did. Even if I don't get Slack-12 working fully as expected, I have figured out how to slide past the most annoying bugs, at least the ones of which I am aware. It was a full install, as are all my Linux installs. By my observation, it seems that it's always a better idea to do a full and fresh install than an upgrade. That's an observation, not fact!

Quote:
As for your problem with your LCD screen, that seems to be common -- I always use xorgconfig which pretty much avoids that problem.
It seems to be fairly common for Slack-12. As I said in some other posting on this issue, setting up Slack-11 on my two laptops never resulted in any video or display problems, whether I used xorgsetup to let the computer do all the work, or whether I wanted to be a control freak and use xorgconfig. Always, it seemed that something in Slack-11 was aware that any refresh rate that wasn't 60Hz would result in a scrambled display on my laptops.

However, the same cannot be said for Slack-12. On this machine (Toshiba Satellite 1005-s157), and on the desktop system on which I installed Slack-12, it seems that the video card defaults to the highest refresh speed allowed by the VertRefresh setting. Fortunately, there was a socket on the back of this computer that allowed me to plug a CRT monitor in so I could see that, in fact, KDE was coming up...with a refresh of 70Hz. It wasn't until I edited the xorg.conf file directly to tell it to make VertRefresh 60 Hz that I could actually use the display attached to this machine.

Beyond that, I also had to reinstall the xf86-video-i810-1.7.4-i486-1.tgz video driver. For some reason, as exposed in this thread, the Intel i810 video driver morphed into a driver for sil164. The fact that three other threads (that I found) are devoted to this bug tells me this is truly a bug, and not an error on the part of the person installing Slack-12.

The point is I remain unimpressed. Slack-12 does work, if you come here and root through the numerous posts about it to find the truffles of wisdom. I feel pity for the person trying to install Slack-12 without this resource. It has to be completely maddening! Even with this resource, I found it challenging to get Slack-12 functional. For those who had no trouble, boy howdy, I wish I had your system(s). But I don't. I have the systems I have.

With all these various and sundry bugs showing up, I have to wonder how they could have been missed by the Slackware team. Perhaps that team uses generic enough machines that the bugs didn't pop up. I don't know, and I really don't want to theorize. I'll leave that up to someone who won't get in trouble for doing so.

Blessed be!
Pappy
 
Old 08-11-2007, 01:30 PM   #58
rworkman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pappy_mcfae
With all these various and sundry bugs showing up, I have to wonder how they could have been missed by the Slackware team. Perhaps that team uses generic enough machines that the bugs didn't pop up.

This is why the -current development branch is made available to the public - if you want to ensure that the next release has fewer bugs, you know what to do now.
 
Old 08-12-2007, 01:52 AM   #59
pappy_mcfae
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Cool beta testing???

Quote:
Originally Posted by rworkman
This is why the -current development branch is made available to the public - if you want to ensure that the next release has fewer bugs, you know what to do now.
I thought that they did beta testing among themselves, not among their users. I realize that to some degree, you never get all the bugs worked out of any system. However, putting new and exciting ones into the mix...I guess it's going to happen. However, I'd expect that the makers of a product with the quality name that Slackware has to be a bit more persnickety about what they do release to the general public.

It is conceivable that the systems used to test Slackware were all newer machines; immune to some of the bugs I have noted and those reported by various users here. Perhaps the bugs are more prevalent on older systems. I really don't know. It seems from the discussion that the number of people having trouble with it is about equal to those who love it to death.

While I am not all that happy because of the bugs I have found in Slack-12, it is STILL definitely as stable as Slack-11. At least they got that bit down! That is a very good thing indeed. I will keep this Slack-12 setup and work on it periodically to get rid of the really annoying bugs. I have already accustomed myself to them, and I can work around them without even noticing them. It's amazing to me how quickly I adjusted. You can still number me among the Slackware faithful.

Blessed be!
Pappy
 
Old 08-13-2007, 12:02 AM   #60
perry
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Thumbs up Did I mention today how much...

I simply love using Slackware 12 and Dropline Gnome. Today I had to reinstall Win2k (for games & such) and boy let me tell you was it ever great to come home and find Slackware running after scheduling an automatic windows update...

True story!

What it was is that I have Slackware setup as the #1 option on Lilo and the update must have issued a restart... Little do they realize they finally got the update right!

- Perry
 
  


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