The Faith & Religion mega Thread

Basically it is problem of peaceful coexistence. Both believers and atheists exist all the time. Main problem is animosity, sometimes open hostility. Some people on both sides are somehow assured it is possible to eradicate other side - to make all the world secular - or one or several religions for all. Most people I think just follow the rule live and let live others.

Well igadoter, I am unaware of any organized effort that is a counterpart analog of The Inquistion, The Albigensian Heresy, or any of The Crusades, etc. especially if we add the condition of "to promote the freedom of evidence-based exploration and discussion". To put it simply, I don't care a whit if you or anyone believes in whatever just as long as you don't get to make it unlawful or shameful to disagree.

Institutionalized prosecutions of religious people is rarely being seen. Is justified "by law". I propose let us keep this thread general without referencing to historical events. You are mentioned Inquisition, Crusade - for what purpose?

Originally Posted by igadoter Institutionalized prosecutions of religious people is rarely being seen. Is justified "by law". I propose let us keep this thread general without referencing to historical events. You are mentioned Inquisition, Crusade - for what purpose?

My point is a mild counter to your claiming somewhat equal persecution but also the power to carry out any such persecution. This is to back my claim that the numbers and power have always been in favor of organized religion, not atheists who were a handful at best at any given time in the Past, and also the inclination of Religion, NOT atheists to persecute the religious.

It seems to me that for some reason I don't fully grasp, the religious have some need to have everyone agree with them, and kill or otherwise negate anyone who doesn't. I don't see any parallel among atheists. It is nowhere near equal animosity.

I'd agree...

The further back in history we opinionate, unless facts had by all.

Shrink that!

Add: It's been brought up on this site, that only time may be smart enough to reach the worlds. . . .

It is basically problem with concept of justice. Say justice like book. On the left pages numbers of our people killed. On the right pages numbers of theirs people killed by us. Now justice is when these number are almost the same. Kind of debt of harms - debt which has to be payed in full. But both parties have some concept of justice. Is that book above or something else? And at end people act to bring justice to the World.

Originally Posted by enorbet It seems to me that for some reason I don't fully grasp, the religious have some need to have everyone agree with them, and kill or otherwise negate anyone who doesn't. I don't see any parallel among atheists. It is nowhere near equal animosity.

You obviously haven't been looking at all at modern "cancel culture". It's every bit as vicious as the Inquisition was, only a lot less powerful. They can't kill you yet, but they would if they could! I don't know how many of these people are actually atheists. I suspect most of them are in the "spiritual but not religious" camp, which offers a more comfortable berth for lazy minds.

If you believe in fairytales anything can happen, buy anything I mean not defining right and wrong. Spiritual is another word for fairy tale.

Originally Posted by jamison20000e If you believe in fairytales anything can happen, buy anything I mean not defining right and wrong.

For one person these are fairy tales - so not much to talk about. For other - things very important. Real - they determine way that person lives. So question is: can you understand? Or maybe: are you willing to try to understand?

I was raised in a religious family, with unchanging religious minds. That doesn't change the fact that magic is not real.

If you believe in luck you make it, good or bad just like demons.

Some minds only learn to be book smart, not that we all don't need to be told what to better how to think to a point... it would just be better once right and wrong exist, if ever?

Originally Posted by igadoter It is basically problem with concept of justice. Say justice like book. On the left pages numbers of our people killed. On the right pages numbers of theirs people killed by us. Now justice is when these number are almost the same. Kind of debt of harms - debt which has to be payed in full. But both parties have some concept of justice. Is that book above or something else? And at end people act to bring justice to the World.

I don't find Justice with mere revenge. I prefer idealogical warfare simply cease. I'd like to see quite a little more of understanding and tolerance so many pay lip service to. As for my own tolerance, I don't seek to ban or punish religion, only the preferential power and influence of the organizations. In my view spirituality is completely personal.

Originally Posted by hazel You obviously haven't been looking at all at modern "cancel culture". It's every bit as vicious as the Inquisition was, only a lot less powerful. They can't kill you yet, but they would if they could! I don't know how many of these people are actually atheists. I suspect most of them are in the "spiritual but not religious" camp, which offers a more comfortable berth for lazy minds.

I'd have to see a LOT more evidence of this alleged correlation to buy it. Cancel Culture does not "bear the marks" of logical thinking. It has far more to do with intolerance and so-called "political correctness", which in itself is emotional, stifling, and illogical with zero evidence that it creates a free and critical thinking society, as is your assumption that I "haven't been looking".

I happen to agree that cancel culture is vicious but I disagree that it holds a candle to the sadistic medieval bent of The Inquisition. They do have a somewhat similar effect of creating a "walking on tiptoes" atmosphere of fear though. Incidentally, and as you probably know, The Inquisition lasted ~700 years. Organized cancel culture is unlikely to last more than 7 years, since it is the proverbial "double-edged sword" whose influence is largely money, which means any organization can wield it. I strongly suspect the practitioners won't enjoy the backlash.

I also have some confidence that any religious retribution-based organization cannot exist for nearly a millennia without the perfect storm of widespread superstition and lack of education as well as Democracy. Tables are too easily turned absent static Authoritarian government, not to mention laws which gave the right to murder a handful of lower class individuals each year on a whim without anything worse than a fine as a penalty IF someone owned them. Even clergy had and used such "rights". Thankfully we have made some little progress since the Age of Reason.

Beliefs are real because they directly influence our actions. Real thing influence our actions. It is just one of attribute what is it something is real. Stone in TV is not real - it can't harm you. But real stone can harm. So person needs to avoid it. Move left, right - something like that. People say: I can't do that my religion forbid this. So you cannot ignore religion.

Hello igadoter,
I'm guessing you didn't look up "superstitious pigeon experiment" ( here - https://www.all-about-psychology.com...he-pigeon.html ) but the upshot is that events on a random timer but that become associated with individual action (wing-flapping, head-bobbing, etc) result in positive reinforcement that the individual may perceive as a causal relationship which leads to repetitive ritual. This is little different from hand signs and motions (like devil's horns), magical words and spells, prayer, and human sacrifice. all to appease some god, insure victory in battle or a bumper crop, whatever.

I submit this is primitive and illogical behavior and the sooner Humanity can divest itself of such non sequiturs, the better.

I'm agnostic because it's more scientific.

And science in general is closer to right and wrong not because I was taught it but because obviousness.

Science may someday prove if we live infinitely in hidden relms or were planted like a garden but religion can never prove it only hypnotize...

If I tell a baby their skin is blue and keep them from others definition of what we call blue... Is the kid blue because that believe so?

Don't keep you or your family and friends pride in the way, admit it you're evolving.