The Faith & Religion mega Thread

Originally Posted by sundialsvcs Heh... Religion can "demand unconditional acceptance" from me if it wants to ... but it's never going to get it.

Healthy attitude

Originally Posted by sundialsvcs I definitely agree with you on the point that "accepting of Science" is not "a demonstration of Faith." Nor did I wish to suggest that the two are the same. I think that both of us well-know the sort of people that I am talking about. Likewise, I didn't intend to "characterize science as 'stumbling,'" merely to observe that, well, every now and then we do stumble-upon something that turns the whole applecart topsy-turvy.

Oh yes Serendipity and stumbling can be great "friends"... just wanted to make sure we weren't using too broad a brush and denigrating the work of some true heroes.

Originally Posted by sundialsvcs "Un-testable?" Yes. But "therefore, 'useful for nothing else?'" Well, there is where I would disagree with you. A great many things that are untestable might nevertheless be useful, indeed. I personally suspect that there are many, many layers to our vast intellect, not all of which manifest themselves as "cold, reasoning logic." Intuition, and all those other "un-testable things," were key to survival itself. Far more so, perhaps, than "logic."

Oops I didn't make myself clear then. I am extremely fond of training to the point I can "get out of my own way" and recognize the incredible power of our minds and bodies to commit such things to near instantaneous instinctive action where intellect is far too plodding and slow. What I meant by "nothing else" is in tackling advancement of the body of knowledge especially about The Big Questions. Thus, the right tool for the right job comment.

Originally Posted by sundialsvcs Likewise, our opinions diverge about statements like, "undoubtedly offered solace where no action was perceived possible [...] what action was possible was and is the result of Science." I think that our human experience has been enriched by both, and not simply when a society was faced with a sinking ship.

Just to be clear I'm not a robot nor even like a Vulcan. We are programmed with all manner of emotional mechanisms common to social animals and I revel in those as much as anyone, I think. Again, the right tool for the right job, but I can't help but wonder if religion, especially Organized Religion, has been a net gain or a net loss over the centuries. I don't think if Religion somehow just disappeared, these emotional bonds and cues would depart with it. Mystery would remain, and especially the mysteries of getting to know someone, feeling part of a group, and working toward a common positive goal would still be there, and still be wondrous.

Originally Posted by sundialsvcs But we are absolutely in agreement that "influencing government in rigid, totalitarian ways" does happen, and that it emphatically is not acceptable. (However... I also wonder whether-or-not those people actually represent the Deity in whose Name they make so much loud noise. Somehow, I am reminded of words like, "they have already received all of the reward that they will ever receive." And of, "depart from Me ... I never knew you!" This, of course, being another topic-divergence best kept for another day.) A very enjoyable response, @enorbet. Sorry I can't buy you a round.

Yes once organized into a large group it often becomes a "special interest group" and gains political power, and apparently nobody, Scientific or Spiritual, is exempt from that sort of corruption. The only difference, once again, is that at least so far, Science students don't come to my door asking me if "I've accepted Science as my personal saviour". :P

It has been enjoyable and regardless of who pays I'll hoist a shot of Jameson's and do my best Jack Nicholson impersonation

Another good read, You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to enorbet again...

This poll is missing militant atheist

Originally Posted by Germany_chris This poll is missing militant atheist

Good sarcasm, probably less of those than religious militants?

No sarcasm..

I'd fall into that category

The Christian resolution to find the world ugly and bad has made the world ugly and bad. --Friedrich Nietzsche

Originally Posted by rokytnji Meat and Potatoes for believers. I love reading this stuff because it is one of the few times I read If wondering. This is translated Dead Sea Scroll stuff. It is actually a entertaining read, depending on personal tastes of course. I also am looking forward to Seth MacFarlanes new take on Carl Sagans old series Cosmos next Sunday. I like being entertained.

Thanks. That is rather entertaining even if it seems Enoch had a predilection for "unusual" mushrooms or ate some "tainted rye"

I not only watched Cosmos on The Discovery Channel, but own a boxed DVD set that came out a few years later with some commentary by Ann Druyan. So I, too am looking forward to the esteemed Dr. Tyson's new take. In fact I hope it does well beyond the wildest speculation for many reasons, not the least of which would be a wake up call to a few Unscrupulous Charlatans at Fox.

@Germany Chris

In truth, I doubt even Friedrich himself actually thought Christianity was the sole cause of the ugly and bad in the world. I can't help but wonder if he wrote this after he found himself essentially unemployable due to the power of Christians in Universities but also in Government. He was born and lived in a rather different world than the one to which we are accustomed.

Today there is considerably less need to decimate one's enemies through force. One only has to outperform them and render them obsolete and unsustainable. Again and again it is proven that it is usually useless to try to protect oneself by banning the opposition. That generally merely serves to create polarization, actually adding to the opposition's power and/or reducing one's own power/respect etc.

Originally Posted by enorbet That generally merely serves to create polarization, actually adding to the opposition's power and/or reducing one's own power/respect etc.

Don't forget about underlining money, explain$ to me why militaries and lawmaker$ love (or at lest act to) god$?!

::everything that was logically said and I had some links for my last post but I must have forgot to add them? So:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...illion-a-year/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/1...n_4124718.html
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendl...s-71000000000/
...plus many other benefits to believing,,, no wonder it's evolving!

Another must see video from youtube! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaJgLBoB_Pw So it turns out that so called God wants us in hell afterall?

And, would make the world a better place; paraphrasing Family Guy or something I saw resonantly, Bin Laden (potentially any "bad" person) praises "god" just before getting killed so goes to "heaven" as I've thought before "original\ancestral sin" has got to go or (sadly) at lest evolve like it is!

Originally Posted by jamison20000e {...}Bin Laden (potentially any "bad" person) praises "god" just before he was killed so he is up there {...}

Yea i was under same impression before but if you search for it you can find contradictions to that theory. Like this article says you can't just do that in praxis and expect to get away with what you've done!

But if you are ... trying to find a loop hole so that you can ... and still be sure you will go to heaven, then you are showing the ability to make that choice and I believe God will hold you accountable accordingly.

Tailored to fit not fix...

I was looking around that site for a laugh and have to wonder if a police officer is committing sin picking up a gun knowing damn well they may have to use it because literally thou shalt not kill?! Of course to most religious minds only "unlawful" killing to complete the circle...

Edit in:

Whose killed the most? Puppet masters.

Originally Posted by jamison20000e Tailored to fit not fix...

Who knows? Anyways another nice finding and no it is not against evolution but just about myths about it.
10 of the most popular myths about human evolution (+ photos)