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View Poll Results: You are a...
firm believer 164 28.62%
Deist 18 3.14%
Theist 23 4.01%
Agnostic 120 20.94%
Atheist 248 43.28%
Voters: 573. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-19-2014, 12:22 PM   #4741
jamison20000e
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Exclamation


The books that teach not to trust anything (therefor more unbiased(!)) are history and science both of which we as a whole learn nothing from thanks to religions and traditions!!!!!
 
Old 02-20-2014, 12:15 PM   #4742
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Quote:
"The General who in a hundred battles is always victorious is not as
great as the one who achieves his objectives without fighting."
-- Sun Tzu
Kinda wierd logic to be honest. If you support this quote then you can't support this Jesus comparison with Optimus Prime! Unless you haven't yet decided and are neutral.
 
Old 02-20-2014, 12:45 PM   #4743
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Flooding the earth, asking to kill,,, is not fighting? Instinct fights to survive (++) can at present time anyone be or remain neutral with this DNA (or thinking?) Human nature will change and faster if we let science into our hearts; a few (hopefully many, many, many, many) years my nephew (11y/o <3) will need a new kidney, I will have them check me for a match, my dad gave the last one eight years ago he is 62 now...

Last edited by jamison20000e; 02-22-2014 at 01:01 AM.
 
Old 02-24-2014, 10:52 PM   #4744
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Arrow We don't need to prove history!

It seems fitting from many gods to "one" to none, it's simply the evolution of *oxymora* their deaths.
http://www.history.com/shows/vikings...ep-8-sacrifice
http://www.hulu.com/watch/481109#i0,p5,d0
 
Old 02-25-2014, 03:43 PM   #4745
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Quote:
We don't need to prove history!
W r o n g! History can be altered aswell so...if you claim something you also need backup base to support something of that sort. Same thing happens when you tell truth but not whole - like this article about Earth not really orbiting around Sun the way we are told. Afterall if we run on 12 watts like mentioned in NG: Brain games we need solid ground to work with and to operate within.

Last edited by Arcane; 02-25-2014 at 03:45 PM. Reason: link
 
Old 02-25-2014, 04:22 PM   #4746
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Sure, and heat doesn't rise it is forced up by heaver air pulled down by gravity it's all how we perpetually look at things plus people need jobs and stuff to do before\while... now lets look at current history, oops there's the monkey wrench!
1701868433_1392613148.jpg

Edit: spelling me and the checker >:(
punctually perpetually Add: http://www.toequest.com/forum/genera...tml#post182086

Last edited by jamison20000e; 02-27-2014 at 11:51 AM.
 
Old 03-02-2014, 04:17 PM   #4747
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Idle Musing -

I recall the first time that I realized through experience that PCs are not infallible. This of course doesn't mean that I expected them to always be correct since I am and was aware that starting with a false premise leads to a false conclusion.

What I expected was that they could be trusted to always do the same thing exactly the same way every time. This turned out to be one of those false premises in the sense that it is entirely possible and in fact has occurred in my experience more than a handful of times. Without going too deeply into the subject of randomness in binary systems, suffice it to point out that ECC ram exists for an actual reason, not merely an eventuality.

In the case of the human brain it is always amazing how it is possible for so many contradictions and other forms of ill-logic to exist in an "operating system" that doesn't just crash and burn. <Aside> It made me smile when Spock said, in the episode The Ultimate Computer " It would be most interesting to impress your memory engrams on a computer, Doctor. The resulting torrential flood of illogic would be most entertaining. "


We are a relatively new life form by any estimation, whether Faith or Science based, so I suppose in the scheme of Deep Time "the jury is not yet in" on that count but a Million years is not trivial in human terms so maybe we can accept that overall, gene encoding hasn't done too badly so far. Somehow we make the contradictions work out and seem to progress by at least some standards.

In 2005 a study was published that postulates that the VMAT2 gene is at the base of why some people are predisposed to Spirituality, and the various levels of it. It was pointed out that being able to step outside of one's present condition and have Hope has an evolutionary advantage, whether correct or fanciful, the results have worked in our favor.

It really doesn't matter, down here on Planet Earth, whether this happened randomly through Natural Selection and Evolution or if some Deity "put them there" as part of the mechanism of Creation. Our lives are utterly unchanged by which method this has occurred. It really doesn't matter if some gene is responsible, only that some humans seem predisposed to Faith and belief in such things as Dieties and others are not. Only if there is some existence after what we define as Death, does this matter one iota.

Since there is presently no means to experimentally determine if there is some existence after death and the prospects for doing so in some future are extremely unlikely if not just very far away in Time, we are left with the fact that it is utterly impossible to prove

1) any recognizable existence after death

2) any existence outside our Universe, especially a Creator

or, that

3) either of these have any bearing on Ethics, Morality, ie: how we live our lives down here on Planet Earth in physical Time

This is all just simple Epistomology. Belief != Knowing so those questions are left completely up to Faith, believing without any evidence to support that belief. For some reason this isn't good enough for most religious people. For some reason they seek to try to prove these things are logical and not merely belief but actual Known Truth. However as soon as it is shown that such arguments are impossible they tend to fall back on pure faith. It is almost entirely unshakeable by mere logic, since at the core, Logic is not a factor.

So, while I stop by here on occasion out of some idle curiosity, and I am not in the least surprised that people supposedly of faith visit here a lot,and feel compelled to profess their beliefs, I am some surprised that any of the rest, the self-proclaimed atheists, agnostics, deists, etc even bother when we should know that people of faith cannot be swayed by words of logic. What's the point?
 
Old 03-03-2014, 12:35 AM   #4748
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The future my dear is swaying...
 
Old 03-03-2014, 01:05 AM   #4749
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
{...}This is all just simple Epistomology. Belief != Knowing so those questions are left completely up to Faith, believing without any evidence to support that belief.{...}
You are only partially correct. Yes it is true that we don't know everything yet so we believe. This is why science and religion can't answer everything there is yet (duh). However your idea that we won't find out answers to those questions at all is false. Humans have ability to learn, study, adapt, evolve etc. and sooner or later we will know. Then we will see who laughs last.
 
Old 03-03-2014, 01:11 AM   #4750
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Some things maybe perpetual in order for the "word" to exist...

Last edited by jamison20000e; 03-03-2014 at 01:13 AM.
 
Old 03-03-2014, 01:51 AM   #4751
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamison20000e View Post
Some things maybe perpetual in order for the "word" to exist...
Speaking about eternalism: Can someone solve these riddles?
It has been told that we all are sinners
Quote:
I ask you, are you a sinner? Have you ever lied, stolen, lusted, coveted, or been angry with someone unjustly? Have you ever offended God in any way? If so, then you have sinned. Your sin is against God because you have broken His law. Also, because He is infinite, your offense to Him is infinite. You are not capable of appeasing an infinite God because you are a sinner. Nothing you can do will undo the damage caused by your sins.source
After watching Devil's advocate it is clear that we live in world where sin is forced and unavoidable so it clearly indicates that it is part of God's plan.
Quote:
God has fixed it so that we are all utterly depraved. None of us can find even one kernel of pure righteousness within ourselves. Everything we do that is right, we do for self-serving motives. Even our best behavior is poisoned by evil intentions.source
So it all comes down to no choice free will on this. Ok. So Jesus is our saviour but didn't he already die for our sins? How come we still are punished?
BTW: Again why are there multiple Jesus|other-holy-book-character and multiple Devil|Satan|Lucifer characters with different descriptions?
Quote:
I would like to note, that the Jesus of Mormonism (the brother of the devil), the Jesus of the Jehovah's Witnesses (an angel made into a man), the Jesus of the New Age (a man in tune with the divine consciousness), etc., cannot save you from your sins. Faith is only as good as the person in whom you put it. Only the Jesus of the Bible can save. Jesus is God in flesh, the creator. God is a Trinity and Jesus is the second person of the Trinity.source
Quote:
So, what's the difference between Satan, Lucifer, and the devil?

Satan is a title meaning adversary or opposer. It can refer to several different beings, from men to angels, who are considered evil. Lucifer means light-bearer, and it signifies the astrological deity associated with the planet Venus. Devil means slanderer or accuser, and it was the word the Greeks used to translate the Hebrew word (ha-)satan. source
It all comes down to what was said before. Holy books are either mistranslated or edited on purpose!
 
Old 03-03-2014, 05:09 AM   #4752
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcane View Post
You are only partially correct. Yes it is true that we don't know everything yet so we believe. This is why science and religion can't answer everything there is yet (duh). However your idea that we won't find out answers to those questions at all is false. Humans have ability to learn, study, adapt, evolve etc. and sooner or later we will know. Then we will see who laughs last.
I don't know who this "we" you speak of is. Please speak for yourself. For me what you say has no meaning. I do not have Faith. I don't believe in things that I don't have sufficient evidence to have acceptable odds. I can't see how Religion answers anything.

It seems impossible to step outside of our comfort zone. I can't imagine dropping Logic and buying into things without evidence, and you can't seem to step outside Faith and accept Logic without "supplementing" it with leaps of Faith. You have zero basis to assume that "all shall be revealed" by any mechanism, yet it is apparently as much a part of you as your hand is. Why you would laugh if you were proven true is beyond my comprehension.

So in effect, you prove my point. There is no point to arguing logically with Faith inclined because they will drop logic in a heartbeat and fall back on Faith, apparently happy to be unshakeable, even if it is wrong or simply unprovable.

Furthermore it displays why I find it so confusing that the Faith inclined aren't happy with just that and somehow feel the need to also convince themselves it is logical as well. Maybe it is the same urge that drives Evangelism another concept that totally evades me. The numbers who believe in something untrue cannot change that it is untrue, so I suppose it is just some irrational emotional comfort, but as long as they aren't engaging in some Inquisition or impeding education, in other words remaining private, I really don't care. To each, his own.
 
Old 03-03-2014, 06:08 AM   #4753
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Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
I don't know who this "we" you speak of is. Please speak for yourself. For me what you say has no meaning. I do not have Faith. I don't believe in things that I don't have sufficient evidence to have acceptable odds. I can't see how Religion answers anything. {...}
So in effect, you prove my point.{...}
So you are not part of humanity? Sorry alien who lives on other planet probably on different plane of existance. On Earth we have different rules and traditions - one of which is that with time a lot of previously impossible-in-theory answers actually are revealed by various methods and tools in praxis and become not so much sci-fi. That is how our knowledge of world increase.

Actually if any point was prooven in effect is that people need learn to read more(prefferably few books). If not then watch videos that do job just as much if not more. Like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T69TOuqaqXI
 
Old 03-03-2014, 06:58 AM   #4754
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcane View Post
... On Earth we have different rules and traditions ...
Exactly why we must change minds, Tinkerbell won't float (and she stabs people:)
Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
... For me what you say has no meaning. I do not have Faith. I don't believe in things that I don't have sufficient evidence to have acceptable odds. I can't see how Religion answers anything.

It seems impossible to step outside of our comfort zone. I can't imagine dropping Logic and buying into things without evidence, and you can't seem to step outside Faith and accept Logic without "supplementing" it with leaps of Faith. You have zero basis to assume that "all shall be revealed" by any mechanism, yet it is apparently as much a part of you as your hand is. Why you would laugh if you were proven true is beyond my comprehension.

So in effect, you prove my point. There is no point to arguing logically with Faith inclined because they will drop logic in a heartbeat and fall back on Faith, apparently happy to be unshakeable, even if it is wrong or simply unprovable.

Furthermore it displays why I find it so confusing that the Faith inclined aren't happy with just that and somehow feel the need to also convince themselves it is logical as well. Maybe it is the same urge that drives Evangelism another concept that totally evades me. The numbers who believe in something untrue cannot change that it is untrue, so I suppose it is just some irrational emotional comfort, but as long as they aren't engaging in some Inquisition or impeding education, in other words remaining private, I really don't care. To each, his own.
nicely said... I can't claim to know if there's a third or more (think I enjoy religious discussions because none can ever be right and simply love good arguments) but in "our" reality there's really only two paths, right\yes\true\thought\one\+\science* and wrong\no\false\mindless\zero\-\war &c!(.) Understanding what being an Anarchist is
is like understanding what a true Hacker is the people have twisted the words.

Last edited by jamison20000e; 03-03-2014 at 07:59 AM.
 
Old 03-03-2014, 08:06 AM   #4755
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Originally Posted by jamison20000e View Post
{...}but in "our" reality there's really only two paths{...}
Did Tinkerbell or any other fictional character say that? They are only half true. Yes today we can say something is "+" and something is "-" but tomorrow things will or can change and previously "+" will become "-" and viceversa. So we don't have black&white reality. There are also colors or at least middle grey colors|shades|tone. Just look at TV, radio, PC - in past|yesterday these also were thought to be science fiction but we do have that today and we are not done improving in technology either. Radios are another example that just because we don't see different frequencies around us doesn't mean there are no frequencies at all!

Last edited by Arcane; 03-03-2014 at 08:09 AM. Reason: typo
 
  


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