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View Poll Results: You are a...
firm believer 168 28.77%
Deist 18 3.08%
Theist 23 3.94%
Agnostic 120 20.55%
Atheist 255 43.66%
Voters: 584. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-27-2007, 06:22 PM   #166
Tinkster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jay73 View Post
In spite of the "Gott mit uns", nazism had little if anything to
do with religion.
In fact, Hitler was an atheist and considered conscience "eine
juedische Erfindung" (a jewish invention).



Cheers,
Tink
 
Old 11-27-2007, 07:42 PM   #167
rsashok
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinkster View Post
In terms of conflict those distinctions are commonly not the driver,
but the means to organise. The drivers are commercial interests,
or plain good old power. The "uniting factors" then get emphasised
by the leading crew (plutocracy, oligarchy, dictator - take your pick)
to get the crowd to support their cause.

If you firmly believe that religion is the cause of all evil you're just
prone to the pseudo-specification between the "intelligent atheists"
and the "stupid believers".
Could not disagree more, those are both dividers and organizers. And there is nothing more divisive as different religions, and more uniting as common religion. I have yet to see people of professed different religions fighting for the common cause against their own religious brothers.

I put 'atheism' as a peculiar form of religion. One cannot prove or disapprove existing of a deity (contrary to what they claim), so all denying atheists, are as good as their accepting religious counterparts.

For me religion is not agreeable as a form of worshiping, as a set of spooky rituals, and as a basis for the world view and reality interpretation.
 
Old 11-27-2007, 07:44 PM   #168
jay73
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Quote:
this might change your mind, then it might not.
Choice is up to you:

http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/
Interesting, but I see quite a few weak spots. For one thing, its definition of myth is plain wrong. Myths, as mythologists will tell you, are not "lies" but symbolic stories that shape and /or explain fundamental human experiences. Quite a difference there. And believe it or not, even today's rational societies have their own myths. I am sure that many feel deeply insulted, if not outraged, if they see someone burning their flag or mocking their national hymn. But why? It's only a piece of cloth, it's only a tune... And on a more fundamental level, if one assumes that the universe was created by God or that it has at least a divine dimension, concluding that religion is intimately linked with astronomy lends it only more credibility rather than the other way round. In that light, the birth of Christ (whether taken literally or symbolically) is not simply a human event but one of cosmic dimensions.
And another thing, its claim that the death of Christ was followed by centuries of terror is absolutely false. The "Dark ages", so often invoked to question christianity, were hardly as dark as many believe. Isn't chivalry a medieval notion? You could read LeGoff or Duby, both widely recognized authorities on the Middle Ages. You could read the contemporary writings of Villon, Chaucer, Boccaccio, etc. In fact, if Luther challenged the christianity of his age, it was because it was too permissive...
And as for religion being a potential arm in the hands of manipulators, that is nothing new. That's precisely what is implied by the biblical passage from Matthew discussed here before. Don't put blind faith in others on the simple ground that they happen to attend the same service as you, they may have completely different interests. Neither do I place any faith in others on the simple ground that they happen to speak the same language or that we happen to have the same nationality.

Quote:
So for all these "sins" put forward in your rant, islamofascism is somehow permissible? I'm having difficulty making the connection.
As I said, their acts can't be condemned enough, but this is one of the laws of this world: kick a dog and one day it will bite. I think it's oh so easy speaking from our position. We have the money, the power, whatever - but only because of centuries of conquest, slavery, theft and what have you. No doubt some will claim that the West emerged because of its science so that it doesn't owe anything whatsoever. Yes, it did, but science didn't fully start until the Crusaders brought home ancient Greek writings that they had captured from the Arabs. And, incidentally, the Arabs at the time were peaceful traders whose emirates were among the wealthiest places on earth. Pretty much our own situation today. But here is the ultimate irony: these hard workers were generally held in contempt by Westerners. English Renaissance literature abounds with unflattering depictions of Arab and Jewish traders as unholy materialist pigs. OK, you can call this leftist rhetoric but hey, it's not as if the non-leftist approach is working all that much better. And you shouldn't feel insulted when others agree that a bit of power or pressure never hurts.

Quote:
Anyone with a frontal lobe would know that it would be a complete waste of time to argue with any religious fanatic.
Seriously? Then I find it odd that I keep reading about the atrocities of Christianity during the past twenty centuries. How on earth did those fanatics cool down one day? Do you mean to suggest that they all mysteriously vanished? That would be the only possible solution to fanaticism it it were really incurable.

Quote:
I put 'atheism' as a peculiar form of religion. One cannot prove or disapprove existing of a deity (contrary to what they claim), so all denying atheists, are as good as their accepting religious counterparts.
You are contradicting yourself. If you can't know, you can't be an atheist. Atheists do pretend to know. If you're just an extreme sceptic, you should call yourself agnostic instead.

Last edited by jay73; 11-27-2007 at 07:47 PM.
 
Old 11-27-2007, 08:20 PM   #169
truthfatal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinkster View Post
In fact, Hitler was an atheist and considered conscience "eine
juedische Erfindung" (a jewish invention).



Cheers,
Tink
Hitler was not "In fact" an atheist. A simple search will show that there has been much controversy over his beliefs. From what I gather, he was not Christian, but he did believe in a "God" figure.

I haven't been closely following this thread, but I am surprised that it's survived lock free for as long as it has!
 
Old 11-27-2007, 09:32 PM   #170
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Masochistic Mumbo-Jumbo

Quote:
Originally Posted by jay73 View Post
I think it's oh so easy speaking from our position. We have the money, the power, whatever - but only because of centuries of conquest, slavery, theft and what have you.
I find it hard to believe that you can tolerate another day of life. Such wallowing in self-loathing and angst is surely cause for suicide, is it not?

I am very sorry that slavery ever existed in America, but neither I or any of my ancestors ever owned any. I can, however, find my family name on Union tombstones in Gettysburg and Spotsylvania County (the Wilderness Campaign). Yes, I'm sorry slavery existed - but don't ask me to apologize for it.

Of the best places to live, the top two are Iceland and Norway. Both homelands of Vikings. Should they feel sorry for the rather legendary exploits of their forebears? I think not.

My vehement opposition to the global jihad is based on very pragmatic grounds. If the islamists succeed, NO MORE BEER! AAAARRRGGH!

Last edited by Dragineez; 11-27-2007 at 11:34 PM.
 
Old 11-27-2007, 10:18 PM   #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragineez
If the islamists succeed, NO MORE BEER! AAAARRRGGH!
Another reason why I would never become a muslim! If I choose to be shitfaced in the privacy of my own house, and ONLY in my house, (no public drunkenness, and absolutely NO driving under the influence) then I'm well within my rights, and no imam/mullah can do anything about that. "They will have to pry the Jack Daniels from my cold, dead hands!"
 
Old 11-28-2007, 12:05 AM   #172
alred
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probably by erecting a wall(a big and an efferctive one) is enough to solve a lot currently very fundalmental problems ... and i dont think thats would be an un-objective and irrational thing to do nowadays ...

one true god is better than having many many one true gods at the same time ... hmm ... ok ...

actually we got no problem with that as we have things that keep people coming back to again and again(probably reciprocally but many times can be heavier on one side) ... so , not so much of who is higher/greater than who as this doesnt makes sense to all of us ...

bloody hell ... why compete until like that ... i dont understand ...

and ... yes , i am kind of a muslim also ... i used to said that islamic stuffs sound and read a bit like they are coming out of the hands , mouths and brains of people who are at war(men , women , widows , ophans , foot soldiers , food and things like that) but at the same time are practical traders too ...

anyway ... whether all of these are correct or not doesnt matter ... we shouldnt have said that especially to muslim women ...

>> "I would appreciate it if this thread was kept to people telling what religions they believe in, not the stuff they hate about them. I figured that was the point anyway..."

never been an atheist(not sure in what sense an "atheist" is suppose to be though as if it is that hard to be an "atheist") ... that is unthinkable to me as we have more in all their own "seriousness"(donno how to say) for a very long time ... so they are not something there can be totally rid of or iron-out or "thrown out into the fire" with easy , dumb and stupid "simplicity" which is only suitable for monkey to monkeys talk ...



.
 
Old 11-28-2007, 01:42 AM   #173
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Quote:
I am very sorry that slavery ever existed in America
Quote:
but don't ask me to apologize for it.
you DID

Quote:
Such wallowing in self-loathing and angst is surely cause for suicide, is it not?
No thanks, I'm doing perfectly fine (I think?) but it's nice to see that you caught a glimpse of what is driving these fundamentalists to their suicide bombings.
 
Old 11-28-2007, 03:31 AM   #174
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Quote:
That's your excuse for them, is it? That these suicide bombers feel so oppressed and without hope that their only option is the mass murder of innocent people?
No, I didn't mean it that way. There's no 'excuse' for things like that...it may be the result of extreme desperation.

I wasn't even talking about such people. Are all the people being killed in places like Iraq suicide bombers?

tariq
 
Old 11-28-2007, 08:40 AM   #175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by truthfatal View Post
Hitler was not "In fact" an atheist. A simple search will show that there has been much controversy over his beliefs. From what I gather, he was not Christian, but he did believe in a "God" figure.

I haven't been closely following this thread, but I am surprised that it's survived lock free for as long as it has!
That would be agnostic but from what I've read and just looked up, seems to me Hitler was more of a Christian than anything else, mostly Protestantism. Raised as a Catholic though, rejected it as a boy. Praised or gave credit to Islam and Muslim military traditions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_H...igious_beliefs

It's on wikipedia, so it must be true..
 
Old 11-28-2007, 09:13 AM   #176
brianL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbutttbutt View Post
No, I didn't mean it that way. There's no 'excuse' for things like that...it may be the result of extreme desperation.

I wasn't even talking about such people. Are all the people being killed in places like Iraq suicide bombers?

tariq
You say there's no excuse, then you give the excuse of "extreme desperation". Make your mind up.
No, the people being killed in Iraq are victims of suicide bombers, victims of Sunni v Shia rivalry, "insurgents", and innocent victims of trigger happy soldiers and private security org. employees.

The Nazis were into all kinds of weird, occult, stuff.
 
Old 11-28-2007, 10:45 AM   #177
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Set The Record Straight

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbutttbutt View Post
I wasn't even talking about such people. Are all the people being killed in places like Iraq suicide bombers?
Certainly not, there seems to be no end to the imaginative ways to deal death:

Taliban burns food aid

Gunmen slaughter family of journalist

Death squads target Iraqi Doctors

And, of course, I'm sure we're all aware that Paris is burning.

A few thousand more examples should be quite easy to find.

The number of Iraqi deaths attributed to the actions of U.S. forces, in the ever popular America bashing parade, has been artificially inflated to show America in the worst possible light. S'kay, we're used to it by now. "It's all Bush's fault! Oh, and those evil Jews!"

Don't get me wrong, I think George W. Bush will go down in history as one of the worst, if not the worst, president America has ever had (and rightly so). But I think that will be for reasons other than you have in mind right now.

I reject the myth that "economic and educational depression" and "oppression" are responsible. The 9/11 terrorists were all college educated, affluent, and primarily from Saudi Arabia - where they are certainly not subject to religious persecution.

Care to examine how "Palestinian refugees" came to be? I mean, from non-Islamic sources.

The Islamic version: "Evil Jews forced us from our lands at bayonet point."

Historically Accurate version: Because of fervent anti-semitic bigotry, they refused to live with their Jewish neighbors. No problem, the surrounding Arab states told them to evacuate the line of fire. A fortnight, month at the most, we'll have killed all the Jews or driven them back into the sea - then you can move back into your homes and (by the way) "appropriate" the now vacant Jewish properties." Didn't go quite according to plan, did it?
 
Old 11-28-2007, 11:31 AM   #178
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Angry

Hi,

I am wondering whether this is linux forum or religious discussion forum.

_________________________________
Registered Linux User #458208
 
Old 11-28-2007, 12:19 PM   #179
Tinkster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ps_sabu View Post
Hi,

I am wondering whether this is linux forum or religious discussion forum.
General is, as the name suggests, a GENERAL forum. Some of our
members spend lots of time and effort here. Dargineez, for instance,
has ~ 600 post all up, around 330 of which are in this forum here,
most of them are targeted against Islam.




Cheers,
Tink
 
Old 11-28-2007, 12:23 PM   #180
Tinkster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ps_sabu View Post
Hi,

I am wondering whether this is linux forum or religious discussion forum.

_________________________________
Registered Linux User #458208
Btw, you don't need to read either General, nor threads
that have religion or similar topics.

And while we're complaining... Take that colourful "signature" out
of your posts (yes, your old posts, too), and put them in your official
signature which is part of the profile.



Cheers,
Tink
 
  


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