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The nominees are:

firm believer
Deist
Theist
Agnostic
Atheist

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Old 11-19-2007, 10:55 AM   #16
alred
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and this actually takes three ...

buda actually stated that very clearly ... "we are not competitive and we are not even competing ... "

believe me , buda is sort of a progressive , he didnt expect that much , infact he doesnt want it ... so he recently suggested compulsary conscription for all young male adults before they learn how to ska ...

and i did said that secularism can be very very bad , right ... ??



//so ... yup , i consider myself a firm believer ... sort of ...



.
 
Old 11-19-2007, 11:28 AM   #17
oskar
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If you are a Buddhist, that would actually make you an Agnostic or Deist on this scale... as far as I know. Then I am not really an expert on Buddhism.
 
Old 11-19-2007, 11:38 AM   #18
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A short story ...

My wife and I were out in our yard, and before we could hide, we were approached by members of a well know group of religious door knockers. It was a man, and his boy, I suppose 7 or 8 years old. We separated, as we were working in different parts of the yard. My wife ended up with the boy, and I ended up with the father giving his generic speech about my religion, and why I should consider changing. During the conversation I overheard my wife answering questions to the boy. The boy asked her what sect she practiced. When she told him she grew up Catholic, the boy told her she was going to Hell because she burns candles!

My wife and I are very open-minded. We feel everyone has the right to practice their religion, no matter what, as long as they give us the same respect. But the comment this boy made enraged me, he obviously had not been taught open-mindedness, and religious diversity.

Needless to say, it didn't take long for us to send them on their way, with a few choice words along the way.
 
Old 11-19-2007, 11:43 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oskar View Post
Of course I was joking... I didn't mean to offend, but I also don't think you have to treat peoples faith like chinese porcelain.
Yeah, I figured you were. If that was a response to a comment I had posted, I would have assumed a joke. But I'm not everybody, and I know not everybody would take it as a joke.

Faith, to many people, is the means by which they live. Faith is very important. So you should treat all people, and their faiths, with respect.
 
Old 11-19-2007, 12:09 PM   #20
oskar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowCoder View Post
Faith, to many people, is the means by which they live. Faith is very important. So you should treat all people, and their faiths, with respect.
I respectfully object.
I am not going to challenge anyones believe in this thread, because it's rather pointless. But I don't think you have to treat people of faith any different.
Especially if they become elitist. When someone starts to base his reasoning on a holy and unchallengeable doctrine, I think you have the obligation to object if you think differently. And I think even religious people can agree with me on that. They realize like everyone else when faith becomes harmful, because they see it in other religions, or in extremist forms of their own religion, even though they might have a significant blind spot when it comes to the teachings they themselves live by.

Last edited by oskar; 11-19-2007 at 12:12 PM.
 
Old 11-19-2007, 12:29 PM   #21
b0uncer
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Religiousness...to what? Believe in what? Sounds like a major question, since I bet everybody believes in something..if nothing else, then hopefully to themselves at least.

I've never met a person who says s/he doesn't believe in anything (i.e. be a mad atheist), and actually be such. They haven't just taken everything into account
 
Old 11-19-2007, 01:03 PM   #22
Jeebizz
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Another thing that strikes me as odd, is that these people are 100% sure of themselves. They know exactly what happens when you die. As far as I know, any normal person even a relatively devout one wouldn't be able to answer that questions 100%. There is no such religion nor philisophy that has any REAL documented proof about what happens when we die anyways. When you think about it, religion is more of a psychological answer, since after man become more intelligent and had more time on his hands to think rather than hunt for survival. Nobody really knows what exactly happens when you die, therefore that kind of answer alone 'I don't know' is rather disheartening and even s scary to most, therefore religion began to serve a purpose.

Throughout history it is obvious that the most common cause of war, save for territorial disputes and resources, is religion. Not only that, because of religion the progress of mankind was hindered. Remember Galileo? Because of his theories the church branded him as a heretic. In the middle ages, the peasants were not literate, and the church never once decided 'hey, maybe we should help these people to read.' Nah, 'lets just tell them that whatever a clergyman, priest, or pastor says is true, and unquestionable.'

Slavery: Many Africans brought over to the new world were brought by those who not only had duties to king and country, but also 'god'. These people were so devoutly religious, yet ironically it was perfectly acceptable for them to treat another human being less than he would treat an animal. They even lied to them, claiming that they were supposed to be slaves, god says so.

Torture: Back then if there was a UN and Geneva Convention, these people would be charged with crimes against humanity! Does the Spanish/French inquisition ring a bell?

Genocide: When the puritans came to the Americas, as soon as they made contact with the natives, what happened? They either tried to convert the 'heathens' or killed them all off. Ask a Native American if he is better off today because of what happened to his ancestors centuries ago. The puritans saw anyone else not christian as heathens, yet what they alone did to the natives was just as heathenistic as ever.

I didn't mean to get on a soapbox here, sorry for that, but there are just so many reasons as to why I am so critical of religion, and it is so easy for these peole to judge others, yet when confronted with their own past, most likely they will try anything to change the subject, or play down history.


I try my best to respect other peoples beliefs, and I can testify that NOT ONCE have I ever tried to convert others. I wish more of these people would just take a hint. Its bad enough that I live in the 'Bible Belt' of the USA. Ugh.

Its interesting though. I once actually considered becoming a Buddhist. As far I know, there wasn't a Buddhist inquisition. No Buddhist crusade, and nobody badgered you about your beliefs or asked you for money, because all powerful god for some reason just can't handle money! (I.E tele-evangilists). Ok, rant is now over!

Last edited by Jeebizz; 11-19-2007 at 03:50 PM.
 
Old 11-19-2007, 03:28 PM   #23
sycamorex
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I recommend 'The God Delusion' by Richard Dawkins. It's for people who would like to look at religions in a critical way.

Last edited by sycamorex; 11-19-2007 at 04:10 PM.
 
Old 11-19-2007, 03:29 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oskar View Post
I respectfully object.
I am not going to challenge anyones believe in this thread, because it's rather pointless. But I don't think you have to treat people of faith any different.
Especially if they become elitist. When someone starts to base his reasoning on a holy and unchallengeable doctrine, I think you have the obligation to object if you think differently. And I think even religious people can agree with me on that. They realize like everyone else when faith becomes harmful, because they see it in other religions, or in extremist forms of their own religion, even though they might have a significant blind spot when it comes to the teachings they themselves live by.
I probably could have worded it better. My personal practice is to allow others to have their own religious beliefs, and to respect their right to have them. As long as they return the respect, don't try to convert me, impose their beliefs over mine, or otherwise speak ill of my choice, it's all cool. As long as this respect is provided, I have no issue with which religion they choose.

If that person is an elitist, I may not choose to hang around with them. But that is my personal decision.
 
Old 11-19-2007, 03:57 PM   #25
Jeebizz
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Well, it looks like now even the orthodox christians have gone insane. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7098671.stm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragineez
Agreed, but Christian proselytizing doesn't scare me even half as much as Islamic Jihadists. "Convert or your soul will burn in Hell" vs "Convert or DIE!" I'll take inconvenience one please.
Christianity is just as guilty. See my earlier posts, regarding inquisitions and such. Its ineresting since nobody notices a double standard here. God is merciful, yet if you don't follow god, you will go to hell. So if God is mericiful, then by definition he cannot cast your soul into hell just because you don't believe there is a god right? I mean, I thought God was merciful. At least thats also what Islam says, yet there you go, seeing people kill others because they don't believe what you believe, yet somehow god is merciful. Hrmm, help me here, because I sure as hell don't understand.

Also, sorry to be so critical, but according to monotheistic religions, such as Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, 'he' gave mankind free will, but also they say that you are a servent/slave of god. Am I the only one who sees the contradiction here?

Last edited by Jeebizz; 11-19-2007 at 04:07 PM.
 
Old 11-19-2007, 04:00 PM   #26
jiml8
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I am a firm pastafarian. I follow Our Noodly master
 
Old 11-19-2007, 04:44 PM   #27
pwc101
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May we all be touched by His Noodly Appendage!
 
Old 11-19-2007, 04:57 PM   #28
Dragineez
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Bad Examples

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeebizz View Post
Well, it looks like now even the orthodox christians have gone insane. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7098671.stm
Are you seriously trying to equate less than 50 lunatic cult members, holed up in a cave, presenting no threat to anyone but themselves, with a world-wide Islamofascist crusade? Could you please date the inquisition? Papal sanction of colonization? Wasn't gunpowder a new and exciting discovery then? At that time, didn't Galileo have to apologize to the Pope for saying that he thought the Earth went round the sun? You're holding present day Christianity responsible for the acts of misguided medieval zealots?

Am I the only one who sees the contradiction here?

There are far better examples. For instance, forbidding the use of condoms. So by some twisted sort of ethical logic, it's OK to spread AIDS so long as you're not preventing pregnancy. Yup, that one really confuses me.
 
Old 11-19-2007, 05:06 PM   #29
jiml8
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Actually, I shouldn't have called myself a "firm pastafarian". I should have properly identified myself as al dente pastafarian.

Raaaaa-Men!

Last edited by jiml8; 11-19-2007 at 05:31 PM.
 
Old 11-19-2007, 05:19 PM   #30
Jeebizz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragineez
Islamofascist
Didin't Bush come up with that term?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragineez
You're holding present day Christianity responsible for the acts of misguided medieval zealots?
I was merely trying to point that throughout history there have been misguided acts by religious zealots, but also your more contemporary examples are clearly well put as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragineez
There are far better examples. For instance, forbidding the use of condoms. So by some twisted sort of ethical logic, it's OK to spread AIDS so long as you're not preventing pregnancy. Yup, that one really confuses me.
Or how about this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/e...re/7078455.stm

A simple blood transfusion that clearly could have saved her life, she refuses because her religion forbids her to. <sarcasm>Yep, quite logical.</sarcasm>

Quote:
Originally Posted By Dragineez
Could you please date the inquisition?
Taken from wikipedia:
"The Spanish Inquisition was established in 1481 by Catholic Monarchs Ferdinand and Isabella to maintain Catholic orthodoxy in their kingdoms and was under the direct control of the Spanish monarchy. It was not definitively abolished until 1834, during the reign of Isabel II." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Inquisition.

Quote:
Originally Posted By Dragineez
Papal sanction of colonization?
Thats something I cannot find, though there is no proof either that the Catholic church did anything to prevent or at least set some ground rules on how natives should be treated, then again, it wouldn't have mattered if they did anyways.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragineez
At that time, didn't Galileo have to apologize to the Pope for saying that he thought the Earth went round the sun?
But in the end he was right, wasn't he? So much for the Earth being at the center of everything

[edit]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo#Church_controversy

[edit]2

From that same article:
Quote:
* Galileo was required to recant his heliocentric ideas; the idea that the Sun is stationary was condemned as "formally heretical." However, while there is no doubt that Pope Urban VIII and the vast majority of Church officials did not believe in heliocentrism, heliocentrism was never formally or officially condemned by the Catholic Church, except insofar as it held (for instance, in the formal condemnation of Galileo) that "The proposition that the sun is in the center of the world and immovable from its place is absurd, philosophically false, and formally heretical; because it is expressly contrary to Holy Scriptures", and the converse as to the Sun's not revolving around the Earth.[53]
* He was ordered imprisoned; the sentence was later commuted to house arrest.
* His offending Dialogue was banned; and in an action not announced at the trial, publication of any of his works was forbidden, including any he might write in the future.[54]

Last edited by Jeebizz; 11-19-2007 at 05:35 PM.
 
  


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