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Old 04-13-2009, 06:02 AM   #76
Crito
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And before anyone accuses me trolling again for having the audacity to question rules created by those much wiser than me. Who do you think has the authorty to make up language rules? The guys who write the dictionary? People who have studied languages their whole lives? Nope. Shrinks do.

To quote the APA manual: "Some style rules, such as some of the rule for numbers, are indeed arbitrary. Such style rules exist simply because consistency is preferable."

I say freedom is preferable. I say originality is preferable. I say uniqueness is preferable. If that upsets authoritarians, good!

Last edited by Crito; 04-13-2009 at 06:05 AM.
 
Old 04-13-2009, 06:29 AM   #77
jay73
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Quote:
I say freedom is preferable. I say originality is preferable. I say uniqueness is preferable. If that upsets authoritarians, good!
And how are you going to be unique if not against a background of rules? Even texting and leetspeek are governed by rules. If they were not, they would be unintelligible.
Absolute freedom is nonsense, by the way. It's the whole seventeenth century liberal mirage of the autonomous subject. This planet is so small you can get more freedom for yourself only by repressing that of others. In the end, all that should matters is that you get to choose the rules that you prefer.

Last edited by jay73; 04-13-2009 at 06:30 AM.
 
Old 04-13-2009, 06:37 AM   #78
sycamorex
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Quote:
Who do you think has the authorty to make up language rules?
I suppose it would be linguists and I wouldn't call it making up rules - it's more describing some consistent language behaviour over some period of time which would form some rules. Then it becomes the standard for speakers to follow until after some time for various reasons (jay73 provided some examples) people start using some language item differently. Then if there are valid reasons for changing this rule, it gets changed. But it's not like with esperanto or programming languages: linguists don't come up with some rules out of the blue, they try to find patterns in the way people use a language. It might be that they focus on a particular social stratum, and then try to impose it on the rest, but that's another story

Quote:
To quote the APA manual: "Some style rules, such as some of the rule for numbers, are indeed arbitrary. Such style rules exist simply because consistency is preferable."

I say freedom is preferable. I say originality is preferable. I say uniqueness is preferable. If that upsets authoritarians, good!
Spot on, when it comes to art, music, poetry etc. Imagine when everyone puts originality on the first place when it comes to everyday language. The most important function of language is communication and without some consistency and rules after some time we would be struggling to understand what someone else is saying. It's nothing to do with authorities (at least it shouldn't) it is just make our life easier. Think of programming languages: imagine them without rules or consistency. Imagine music: you might be a very talented musician, but first you HAD to learn the existing rules (scales, modes, etc) to build your uniqueness on top of it.
Quote:
I say freedom is preferable. I say originality is preferable. I say uniqueness is preferable. If that upsets authoritarians, good!
It doesn't matter if we are unable to effectively communicate among one another - the most important thing is that we've upset the authoritarians That's the spirit, LOL

Last edited by sycamorex; 04-13-2009 at 06:39 AM.
 
Old 04-13-2009, 07:49 AM   #79
Crito
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Yes, the function of language is communication. Texting evolved because it's a more efficient form. And those who complain about it do so merely because they demand obedience to arbitrary rules.

Seems to me, if you're truly searching for knowledge (rather than blabbering aimlessly), then you should be more concerned with substance than style. But I have to admit that, in the real world, people will readily accept eloquent boolshiat over the insolent truth.

If it makes you feel better about the natural and Darwinian order that emerges out of the chaos that governs the universe, I suppose you could invent a god who makes up rules too. Heck, then you could be just like him, made in his image even. And god-like people are destined to rule the unbelievers!

NOTE to mods: I've probably violated three rules in one post for talking about politics, religion and engaging in a personal attack. Just wanted to make sure everyone realized it was deliberate instead of accidental. LOL
 
Old 04-13-2009, 08:09 AM   #80
sycamorex
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Quote:
Seems to me, if you're truly searching for knowledge (rather than blabbering aimlessly)
Could you stop blabbering aimlessly and address the points about the need for some rules that I mentioned in the previous post? Besides, I fail to see where I mentioned texts.

Quote:
If it makes you feel better about the natural and Darwinian order that emerges out of the chaos that governs the universe, I suppose you could invent a god who makes up rules too. Heck, then you could be just like him, made in his image even. And god-like people are destined to rule the unbelievers!
You completely missed my point.
Quote:

NOTE to mods: I've probably violated three rules in one post for talking about politics, religion and engaging in a personal attack. Just wanted to make sure everyone realized it was deliberate instead of accidental. LOL
Talking about religion or politics is not a violation of the forum rules. Personal attacks usually indicate that a person does not have valid arguments to engage in a discussion.

Last edited by sycamorex; 04-13-2009 at 08:37 AM.
 
Old 04-13-2009, 08:15 AM   #81
XavierP
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The whole substance argument is meaningless. If you say something, someone has to be able to understand it. Without understanding, there is no substance. And that is why language has rules. Unless you understand the rules and can break them in a meaningful way and replace them with something better, you're just uttering gibberish.
 
Old 04-15-2009, 05:02 PM   #82
baldy3105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronlau9 View Post
I do not know anything of the language of Shakespeare
When I was at school they try to teach me the Queen,s English

regards

ron lau
Shakespeares english is like the Queens english, but spoken in a broad black country accent, because Shakey was a brummy.
 
Old 04-15-2009, 06:17 PM   #83
brianL
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English spoken with regional accents is real English.
 
Old 04-15-2009, 10:04 PM   #84
Crito
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Given adequate motivation, of which gaining knowledge is sufficient for most people, you can even understand someone speaking a language you've never heard before. The problem the way I see it is authoritarians just won't accept information that isn't presented in the style/format they demand. And as far as I'm concerned, if the rules made sense you could convince people of their merit and they'd be de-facto; you wouldn't have to set them in stone and enforce them in a Draconian manner.

Last edited by Crito; 04-15-2009 at 10:10 PM.
 
Old 04-23-2009, 05:26 AM   #85
jisjis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frenchn00b View Post
Problems with English? Vocabulary, grammar... Post here

That may help some persons, who are having problems/troubles with English. We shouldn't offence the language of Shakespeare.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Shakespeare

Happy Tux !
-
Frenchn00b does it daily x10000 times

I dont get the difference between advised and adviced.
Anyone care to explain !

Linux

Last edited by jisjis; 04-26-2009 at 04:39 AM.
 
Old 04-23-2009, 05:29 AM   #86
pwc101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jisjis View Post
I dont get the difference between advised and adviced.
Anyone care to explain !
Advise is a verb, advice is a noun; thus, you advise someone to do something, but you give them advice on what to do.

Incidentally, since advice is a noun, it's not possible to have "adviced" someone, what you'd want there is advised.

I use the difference between advice and advise to remember the difference between pratice and pratise. The same rules apply, the first is a noun, the second a verb.

Last edited by pwc101; 04-23-2009 at 05:30 AM.
 
Old 04-23-2009, 06:01 AM   #87
ronlau9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brianL View Post
English spoken with regional accents is real English.
IF I have the time I spent my vacations in Devon.
That happens mostly 2 times every year
Every time a have a conversation with the local people, they said to me that I come from the North.
I always said yes that is true.
And they start asking how it is living in Scotland
Yeah I come from the north but from the northern part of the Netherlands

So what is real English
 
Old 04-23-2009, 07:15 AM   #88
brianL
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I meant any regional accents from anywhere in the UK, as opposed to the artificial, unaccented, "refined", English.
 
Old 05-06-2009, 12:36 AM   #89
frenchn00b
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Question:
Hi, little question for Shakespeare, what might be better ?

Quote:
it has been carried out in Danone factory in Paris?
or
Quote:
it has been carried out at Danone factory in Paris?
or
Quote:
it has been carried out at Danone in Paris?

Quote:
it has been carried out in X University in Paris?
or
Quote:
it has been carried out at X University in Paris?
Thank you!

--
Danone is a food company. Actually not bad products.

Last edited by frenchn00b; 05-06-2009 at 12:40 AM.
 
Old 05-06-2009, 04:17 AM   #90
H_TeXMeX_H
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I'd go for:

it has been carried out at Danone factory in Paris?

it has been carried out at X University in Paris?
 
  


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