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Old 10-05-2008, 07:54 AM   #46
H_TeXMeX_H
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frenchn00b View Post
Hi guys,

can we say :
Code:
"I have milk untolerance ?"
it sounds strange, no?
What in us you would say... ?
I think it's called lactose intolerance.
 
Old 10-05-2008, 09:01 AM   #47
sycamorex
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Quote:
We shouldn't offence the language of Shakespeare.
Well, I am not sure about that, but I usually do my best (sometimes it's not good enough) not to OFFEND the language of Shakespeare

It's shocking how the English language has changed over time. You can compare the inflectional endings of the verb 'to love' and its Old English equivalent (lufian).

Code:
Old English                                 Modern English                                 
Infinitive                lufian            to love

Present
Indicative          
    1. sg   ic            lufie             I love
    2. sg   žu            lufast            You love
    3. sg   he/heo/hit    lufađ             He/ etc. loves
    1-3 pl we/ge/hi       lufiađ            We/you/they love
Subjunctive
    1-3 sg ic / žu / etc. lufie             I/ you/ he/etc. love
    1-3 pl  we/ge/hi      lufien            We/you/they love
Imperative
    sg                    lufa              love
    pl                    lufiađ            love
Participle                lufiende          loving

Past
Indicative
    1&3 sg  ic/he etc.    lufode            loved
    2 sg       žu         lufodest          loved
    1-3 pl    we/ge/hi    lufodon           loved
Subjunctive
    1-3 sg ic / žu / etc. lufode            loved
    1-3 pl    we/ge/hi    lufoden           loved
Participle                gelufod           loved
Inflected infinitive      to lufienne       to love
... and lufian is just a representative of class one of Old English weak verbs. There are different inflectional endings for class two!
 
Old 10-05-2008, 04:40 PM   #48
brianL
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Reminds me of the time I tried to read Beowulf in the original OE. Then Piers Plowman and The Canterbury Tales in Middle English. Got through them, but it was a struggle.
 
Old 10-05-2008, 05:05 PM   #49
sycamorex
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I really liked English historical grammar classes at my university. We would spend a week translating some parts of Beowulf into Modern English. Then our lecturer would prepare some basic sentences in Modern English and ask us to translate it into OE. It was quite difficult bearing in mind that English wasn't our first language, but I can't say I didn't enjoy it.
 
Old 10-06-2008, 05:46 PM   #50
frenchn00b
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Quote:
Originally Posted by immortaltechnique View Post
Ill go with brianL on this one. If it sounds right, then its correct
I think that krusader internet surfing has spelling corrections.
Iceape hasnt
 
Old 10-06-2008, 05:48 PM   #51
frenchn00b
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sycamorex View Post
Well, I am not sure about that, but I usually do my best (sometimes it's not good enough) not to OFFEND the language of Shakespeare

It's shocking how the English language has changed over time. You can compare the inflectional endings of the verb 'to love' and its Old English equivalent (lufian).

Code:
Old English                                 Modern English                                 
Infinitive                lufian            to love

Present
Indicative          
    1. sg   ic            lufie             I love
    2. sg   žu            lufast            You love
    3. sg   he/heo/hit    lufađ             He/ etc. loves
    1-3 pl we/ge/hi       lufiađ            We/you/they love
Subjunctive
    1-3 sg ic / žu / etc. lufie             I/ you/ he/etc. love
    1-3 pl  we/ge/hi      lufien            We/you/they love
Imperative
    sg                    lufa              love
    pl                    lufiađ            love
Participle                lufiende          loving

Past
Indicative
    1&3 sg  ic/he etc.    lufode            loved
    2 sg       žu         lufodest          loved
    1-3 pl    we/ge/hi    lufodon           loved
Subjunctive
    1-3 sg ic / žu / etc. lufode            loved
    1-3 pl    we/ge/hi    lufoden           loved
Participle                gelufod           loved
Inflected infinitive      to lufienne       to love
... and lufian is just a representative of class one of Old English weak verbs. There are different inflectional endings for class two!
nice idea, for one's woman : you'd say ? "I lufie thou"
well for old english poem, might be romantic style ...
 
Old 10-06-2008, 06:03 PM   #52
sycamorex
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Quote:
nice idea, for one's woman : you'd say ? "I lufie thou"
More like:
Ic lufie še
 
Old 04-12-2009, 11:28 AM   #53
frenchn00b
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we say :
"this is an useful ... "
or
"this is a useful"
?
 
Old 04-12-2009, 11:37 AM   #54
sycamorex
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Quote:
This is a useful thing
This is a usual thing
but
This is an ugly thing
This is an unimportant thing
What matters is the pronunciation of the first letter - useful: /j/ which is not a vowel
 
Old 04-12-2009, 01:02 PM   #55
XavierP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frenchn00b View Post
we say :
"this is an useful ... "
or
"this is a useful"
?
The second one is correct.
 
Old 04-12-2009, 02:00 PM   #56
gnashley
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When the following word begins with 'e' or 'o', you use 'an':

A tiger
An elephant
A dog
An octopus.

I think that /j/ in this case *is* considered to be a vowel -but it doesn't really matter- the rule I've given always works -well almost anyway. There are differences of opinion about the correct usage for cases like:

A(n) humble man
 
Old 04-12-2009, 02:18 PM   #57
alan_ri
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OK,what I want to know and hopefully it will be explained here is; why is it you have had,why it isn't you have only or you had.
 
Old 04-12-2009, 03:03 PM   #58
sycamorex
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gnashley View Post
I think that /j/ in this case *is* considered to be a vowel -but it doesn't really matter- the rule I've given always works -well almost anyway. There are differences of opinion about the correct usage for cases like:

A(n) humble man
Why would you say that? /j/ (both as a letter and a sound) is always considered a consonant. Otherwise, we would say 'an university'.

It all comes down to knowing the pronunciation of the word that follows. If the word starts with one of the following sounds:
ɪ - important
i: - eels
e - elephant
ʌ - onion
a: - article
ɒ - office
u: - ooze
... and a few others. (Here's a complete vowel/consonant list with their pronunciation. http://www.oupchina.com.hk/dict/phonetic/home.html)

Obviously, there are differences in pronunciation across the world, but there aren't many of them and the word 'humble' is just one of the very few examples where the above rule would be affected.
The standard dictionary entry for the word 'humble' would be starting with 'h' and that's how you would hear it in most dialects of English, however, in some regions of the English-speaking world people pronounce it with the silent 'h' (some affinity for the French language?)

Last edited by sycamorex; 04-12-2009 at 03:06 PM.
 
Old 04-12-2009, 03:15 PM   #59
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The point of it is: not to have two syllables next to each other that are pronounced the same and are part of two different words. It just doesn't sound right and is hard to pronounce. You'll notice that, if you try to pronounce the two words, you'll need to leave an extra long pause between saying the two words, to avoid this the above fix was implemented.

Last edited by H_TeXMeX_H; 04-12-2009 at 03:16 PM.
 
Old 04-12-2009, 03:29 PM   #60
sycamorex
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H_TeXMeX_H View Post
The point of it is: not to have two syllables next to each other that are pronounced the same and are part of two different words. It just doesn't sound right and is hard to pronounce. You'll notice that, if you try to pronounce the two words, you'll need to leave an extra long pause between saying the two words, to avoid this the above fix was implemented.
Exactly, that's a natural thing to make the pronunciation of two neighbouring vowels smoother. For the same reason, English speakers have developed certain (mostly barely audible) linking sounds in their speech:
- I saw it (there's the sound 'r' between 'saw' and 'it': I saw /r/ it)
- too often (too /w/ often)
- Romeo /w/ and Juliet
- She /j/ is... (edit: this is the sound /j/ as in Yes, Yesterday)

Last edited by sycamorex; 04-12-2009 at 03:32 PM.
 
  


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