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Old 07-03-2011, 12:53 PM   #1051
MrCode
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Latios
How Yahoo messenger and MSN messenger, running side by side, each with its own ads and integral design, can look nicer than unified Kopete that uses the system themes ?
Try running a Qt and GTK program at the same time without the use of anything like QGTKStyle(?)…unless you have a Qt and GTK theme that look 100% alike, you're typically going to see a big difference.

Aesthetics are very subjective; as TobiSGD said, different people are aesthetically appealed by different things, and with Linux (actually any OS that has the X Window System, GTK+ and/or Qt ported to it) you can customize the look to your heart's content.

Last edited by MrCode; 07-03-2011 at 12:55 PM.
 
Old 07-03-2011, 12:58 PM   #1052
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerLinux View Post
windows application has more aesthetic design than that in Linux,
in Linux you can use kopete etc to login your yahoo or msn account, but in Windows the Live messenger looks nicer.
Unless Windows apps for some reason have a much more pleasing widget layout (and I don't see how this is really possible), then it's just because you didn't find a good theme for your Linux desktop. And once you install it, all the apps use it (except for the occasional app that uses a toolkit other than GTK+ or Qt).
 
Old 07-03-2011, 01:04 PM   #1053
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Hey, it's okay. Microsoft Corporation sells millions of copies of that system for a good reason!

If you "can't do without Windows," then for goodness' sake, don't! Notice also that you can run multiple virtual-machines on most systems (hosted by whatever OS you prefer ...) and thus easily have several operating systems in your neighborhood at the same time.

An operating system is a tool for a job. Rather, it is a foundation upon which other useful tools can be built and run. There are dozens of them in common use. It never hurts to learn about another one. But, you never have to "choose between" them.

The more OSes you are at least cursorily familiar with, the more marketable (of course) you will become, because different business applications demand different foundations, and many businesses use several OSes at the same time. (For example, I did a brief job for a hospital that's using OS/X, Linux, OS/400, MVS (nee Z/OS), Windows, and, believe it or not, MUMPS. Not to mention the various real-time OSes that run various pieces of equipment.) You don't have to become a "deep expert" in any of them, unless you really like living in silos, but I find that it helps tremendously to put things into perspective when you have made yourself comfortable and reasonably proficient in a "very multi-platform" environment. Because, that's how an awful lot of businesses actually are. Why did that hospital have every one of those systems? Because, in some way or another, their core business depended on it. Couldn't they have done it all with just one? The question is actually nonsensical.

Last edited by sundialsvcs; 07-03-2011 at 01:05 PM.
 
Old 07-03-2011, 01:47 PM   #1054
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerLinux View Post
I still can't do without windows,
Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerLinux View Post
I don't say windows is more superior, but u can't deny that it has the most support from hardware and software producers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerLinux View Post
windows application has more aesthetic design than that in Linux,
in Linux you can use kopete etc to login your yahoo or msn account, but in Windows the Live messenger looks nicer.
Hey, you're trying to troll the forum, aren't you? There is no question in your post.

If you tried linux for a long time and found that it is not suitable for your needs, be a man, and switch for OS you find more useful without complaining.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Latios View Post
How Yahoo messenger and MSN messenger, running side by side, each with its own ads and integral design, can look nicer than unified Kopete that uses the system themes ?
The person responsible for application look is application developer, OS has nothing to do with it. There are decent cross-platform toolkits (Qt 4) that produce identical look regardless of platform, so if app doesn't look "nice", blame the application developer. Since Kopete (which I never liked anyway) is opensource, you might as well go ahead and tweak to suit your taste.
 
Old 07-03-2011, 02:00 PM   #1055
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So don't.
 
Old 07-04-2011, 05:45 AM   #1056
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Sorry I don't mean to lower down other OS,
I just mean Windows penetrates our lives more deeply than other OS,
and it is really very user-friendly, most people get used to click-and-install, click-and-run.
Linux, when I started to use Redhat in 2002, very cumbersome, many things have to know the shell command,
even to run a CD, you have to mount and unmount it.
Linux now is more and more windows-like,
I feel that, when people say Linux is easy to use, it is because Linux (certain distro) has imitated the way how Windows works.
 
Old 07-04-2011, 05:55 AM   #1057
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I wouldn't consider Windows user-friendly, since I can't do with it what I want to do. You may want to have a look at my article about the so called user-friendliness.
 
Old 07-04-2011, 07:35 AM   #1058
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dillinger86 View Post
{...}chances of getting a virus or a key-logger from just visiting a website are pretty low{...}
You won't get any crapware(annoying ads and pop-ups are something else) from just visiting website even if you use windows without AV, updates and non active firewall and straight connected to web. Also don't think online threats don't apply to nonWindows OSes. You still can be victim of for example phishing. In order to get crapware while browsing internet you need give permision for it to use your computer when it asks for it! Same for virus files - they need be activated before they are doing harm. You can download virus.exe but if you won't start it it is safe like sleeping baby.
 
Old 07-04-2011, 07:46 AM   #1059
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerLinux View Post
it is really very user-friendly, most people get used to click-and-install, click-and-run.
I wouldn't say that it's more friendly, it's just that people are used to it. I'm pretty sure that if you took a person that has never used a computer before, and explained them how to install Windows software (via surfing to website, diwnloading installer, clicking "Next" over and over, etc.) and how to install Linux software (via GUI package manager), I think that they would say that Linux is easier.

And also, different users have different ideas about what's "friendly". For newbies, intuitiveness is the most important, but intuitive iterfaces are often extremely inefficient and limiting. Once you learn more, and would like to do more stuff more efficiently, then those intuitive "user-friendly" interfaces are just in the way all the time.

On the other hand, there's software that's very unintuitive (probably the best example is the vi editor). It's extremely difficult to use for newbies, but once you memorize the commands, it's far more convenient than using a GUI editor and having to move your hand over to the mouse all the time.

The command line is also like that: there are no clues that tell a newbie what to do, but once you memorize the commands, it's much faster and easier than a GUI for many tasks, especially repetitive ones.

Last edited by MTK358; 07-04-2011 at 07:48 AM.
 
Old 07-04-2011, 08:39 AM   #1060
sundialsvcs
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I rather strongly agree with MTK358 in that it is "the devil you know."

As for me, I spend almost all my time in OS/X and Linux these days, and have lost patience with the Windows system. (Which is not to say that I do not use it, and make money from it.) Nevertheless, I spend a lot of time on a lot of different operating systems throughout the course of a year, so any "very strong preferences" or biases I might have had, have been washed and diluted. (Sometimes, believe me, I hate 'em all... and give serious consideration to grooming cats for a living. At least they purr, most of the time.)
 
Old 07-04-2011, 08:39 AM   #1061
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TobiSGD View Post
I wouldn't consider Windows user-friendly, since I can't do with it what I want to do. You may want to have a look at my article about the so called user-friendliness.
I do not have permission to read that.
 
Old 07-04-2011, 08:43 AM   #1062
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Thumbs down

Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerLinux View Post
and it is really very user-friendly, most people get used to click-and-install, click-and-run.
It is not user-friendly simply because there are always newbie users that don't know how to do something. It is simply more popular and more familiar (and I'd say it is more suitable for making commercial applications). As I said - if you like windows, use windows. There are already two huge windows vs linux threads, and it is unlikely that you'll tell anything new.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MTK358 View Post
The command line is also like that: there are no clues that tell a newbie what to do,
Then I guess it is a bad command line software you're talking about. There at least should be "help" command. Best CLI software gives instructions on startup. Slackware installer, for example, allows you to read huge text file that has a lot of pointers explaining where you can get help/more information.
 
Old 07-04-2011, 08:43 AM   #1063
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerLinux View Post
I do not have permission to read that.
I wonder about that. May you can try it with this link and click on the article.
 
Old 07-04-2011, 08:57 AM   #1064
MTK358
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SigTerm View Post
Then I guess it is a bad command line software you're talking about. There at least should be "help" command. Best CLI software gives instructions on startup. Slackware installer, for example, allows you to read huge text file that has a lot of pointers explaining where you can get help/more information.
A new Linux user opens a terminal. How is he supposed to suddenly know about cd, ls, cp, mv, ln, etc.?

Or, a new Linux user opens Vim. How is he supposed to know that you should type ":help<Enter>" to get help? How is he supposed to know about vimtutor?
 
Old 07-04-2011, 09:24 AM   #1065
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTK358 View Post
A new Linux user opens a terminal. How is he supposed to suddenly know about cd, ls, cp, mv, ln, etc.?
Why are you asking ME about that? Terminal should provide initial starting point - mention "man", "info" and "help" command. After that, it is user's job to read manuals using those commands. Slackware installer works this way - although it IS possible to miss initial "Welcome to Slackware" mail.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MTK358 View Post
Or, a new Linux user opens Vim. How is he supposed to know that you should type ":help<Enter>" to get help? How is he supposed to know about vimtutor?
At first launch, the editor should explain how to exit, get help, and how to launch tutorial, obviously. I think some versions of vim provided such explanation at startup, but I'm not sure about it.
 
  


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