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Old 07-05-2011, 09:39 AM   #1081
TigerLinux
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I used Windows since 1990 the windows 3.11 onwards,
it was because everyone can copy and install it so easily.
therefore, windows had penetrated my life until now
 
Old 07-06-2011, 04:38 AM   #1082
XavierP
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Most of the points here have probably already been made in the massively awe....some/ful megathread. I have merged these two threads together.
 
Old 07-06-2011, 07:59 AM   #1083
PrinceCruise
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Yeah and I still hate both side's fan-boys. I will always.
You need to get the f**** work done, do it by the OS you use. Some people may be using other OS/tool for that.
And if you are successful with your OS, that doesn't make your OS best in the world. Peace.
 
Old 07-06-2011, 11:33 PM   #1084
Sumguy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TobiSGD View Post
There is in reality no such thing as a general user, all users a re different. If you mean the users that are only doing some multimedia stuff, a little bit of office work and surfing the net/using social networks, the ones I have set up a standard Debian system for are perfectly able to do that with Debian. I could have chosen any other distribution, it would make no difference. just because they are open minded users that are not limited to a Windows mindset. In fact, one of the users that now has gotten a new computer (Window pre-installed) has asked me to install Linux on it because she finds Windows awkward, and she had no computer experience at all before using Debian.

As said, it depends on the user.
Very true. What you describe is similar to my experience. I started using a computer (Windows, of course) in 1999 without ever having touvhed a computer before. After many years of annoyance with Windows, I finally made the switch a year ago to Ubuntu.... I unstalled it and carried on my computing life as usual, having virtually no need to return to Windows from day one. Had to ask a few questions here (and still do, occasionally) but for all the common operations and basic stuff, it's not rocket science....and it really is not that different from Windows [as far as using it] and there was nothing that could not be easily figured out.

Granted, Ubuntu was made to be like that...but hey, we needed something to wean us away from Windows.

I think those of us with no formal computer training or prior use actually have an advantage in Linux, because those who have been trained and/or are heavily experienced, are usually so in a solely Windows environment- as if nothing else exists...and in many cases their "training" is just a familiarization with various Windows products. People who've come up under that scenario, seem to need someone to show them what to do when presented with anything even slightly different- whereas people like myself figured out how to use Windows merely by experimentation and use...and so there is no reason that we can not do the same with any other new-to-us operating system- the same way we did initially with Windows.

Only Linux is even easier...as one can concentrate on only doing the things which are relevant to his needs and not have to be bothered with a million extraneous things, like AV; constant maintenance; repair and the inevitable gradual decline in performance that seems to characterize all Windows products over time, and to which most attribute to "computer problems".

Last edited by Sumguy; 07-06-2011 at 11:37 PM. Reason: Rogue cyborg forced me by threatening anal probing.
 
Old 07-07-2011, 12:08 AM   #1085
Sumguy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerLinux View Post
,
and it is really very user-friendly, most people get used to click-and-install, click-and-run.
If that is true (and I'm not saying it is), one pays a very high price for that user-friendliness...i.e. being limited in what they can do; needing specialized software for just about every task (tasks which can be done in Linux through the CLI by merely entering a few commands)...the constant annoyance of viruses; need for maintenance; degrading of performance over time; crappy/buggy applications which take years to get fixed (if they ever are fixed), etc.



Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerLinux View Post
Linux now is more and more windows-like,
I feel that, when people say Linux is easy to use, it is because Linux (certain distro) has imitated the way how Windows works.
Certain aspects of Linux may now have a Windows-like interface...but that is only because so many people have become familiar solely with Windows that they are afraid to learn anything else (no matter how trifling) and are only familiar with a Windows-like interface- just like someone who lives in the US and speaks only English is not going to pick up a book written in French and then learn to speak French merely to read that book- not because English is any better than French...but because it's what they know. Translate that book into English, then they can make it their own.

And the major difference is: Linux, unlike Windows, actually works.....


Quote:
Originally Posted by MTK358 View Post
A new Linux user opens a terminal. How is he supposed to suddenly know about cd, ls, cp, mv, ln, etc.?

Or, a new Linux user opens Vim. How is he supposed to know that you should type ":help<Enter>" to get help? How is he supposed to know about vimtutor?
Why would a new user open a terminal? (I did...just to see what it was about, in my normal exploration of the system when I first installed it...then I merely Googled for info- just as one might Google to find appropriate software to help them accomplish what they need to do in Windows).

*** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** ***

I was aware of Linux early-on, but always felt it was too complex for me to mess with (and maybe in those days it was?)- but in retrospect, I think it was just the fact the jargon was different that scared me away. I mean, there I was...just getting familiar with computing and with Windows jargon, then I'd see all these references to strange and unknown acronyms and terms, and just figured that Linux was an OS for people with tons of specialized computer knowledge.

In reality, I've come to find that that's not the case...and had I taken a little time to just learn what some of that lingo was referring to, I would have seen that it was nothing out-of-the-ordinary or overly complex or specialized, but merely different. I sure wish I had tried Linux back then...it would have saved me countless hours of frustration and annoyance.

Even when I did make the switch to Linux a year ago, the language still scared me a little...but at that point, I was so disgusted with Windows that I didn't care, and figured I would just learn whatever I had to, to use Linux. I didn't have to learn much.

I think, to anyone investigating Linux for the first time, just the unfamiliarity with the terms and acronyms and the different names for various programs which accomplish many of the same things with which they are already familiar with in Windows, is what scares many a noobie away.
 
Old 07-07-2011, 12:26 AM   #1086
Sumguy
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And speaking of user [un]friendliness- I remember, in my Windows days, just to try and accomplish some very basic things (i.e. to get rid of some unwanted features or garbage or attributes) i'd have to perform by rote these herculean complex feats while looking at some page-long printed-out instructions found on the net...messing with the registry; restarting the computer 5 times...accessing some obscure settings which were hidden under 10 layers of dialogue boxes....installing special software...all justy to accomplish some very basic stuff that can be doen in Linux with a command or two...all because Windows wants to control my experience and my computer and doesn't want me to.

In a year of Linux use, I've never had to do anything like that. It's always been straight-forward and has always allowed me to control my computer and computing experience exactly as I wish it to be, without having to "trick" or "cheat" the OS to do it...but quite the contrary, Linux was made to allow those things which Windows tries to hinder...and THAT my friends, translates to a truly user-friendly experience.
 
Old 07-07-2011, 04:12 AM   #1087
TobiSGD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumguy View Post
Linux was made to allow those things which Windows tries to hinder...and THAT my friends, translates to a truly user-friendly experience.
Couldn't have said that better.
 
Old 07-08-2011, 05:12 PM   #1088
tiredofbilkyyaforallican
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumguy View Post
And speaking of user [un]friendliness- I remember, in my Windows days, just to try and accomplish some very basic things (i.e. to get rid of some unwanted features or garbage or attributes) i'd have to perform by rote these herculean complex feats while looking at some page-long printed-out instructions found on the net...messing with the registry; restarting the computer 5 times...accessing some obscure settings which were hidden under 10 layers of dialogue boxes....installing special software...all justy to accomplish some very basic stuff that can be doen in Linux with a command or two...all because Windows wants to control my experience and my computer and doesn't want me to.

In a year of Linux use, I've never had to do anything like that. It's always been straight-forward and has always allowed me to control my computer and computing experience exactly as I wish it to be, without having to "trick" or "cheat" the OS to do it...but quite the contrary, Linux was made to allow those things which Windows tries to hinder...and THAT my friends, translates to a truly user-friendly experience.
Amen to that my friend I totally agree with your statements!
These days I am using a Macbook Pro as my main system only until the warrantee is over with in case anyone is curious.

Last edited by tiredofbilkyyaforallican; 07-08-2011 at 05:13 PM.
 
Old 07-08-2011, 05:52 PM   #1089
TigerLinux
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A side question,
Why there are many people like Apple MAC OSX ?
I used apple before, I feel that it is not special, though user-friendly too,
but everything Apple can do Windows can do it better.
 
Old 07-08-2011, 05:54 PM   #1090
dugan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerLinux View Post
everything Apple can do Windows can do it better.
Not everything. The best prosumer video editing application, Final Cut Pro, is Mac only.
 
Old 07-08-2011, 06:08 PM   #1091
TobiSGD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerLinux View Post
A side question,
Why there are many people like Apple MAC OSX ?
I used apple before, I feel that it is not special, though user-friendly too,
but everything Apple can do Windows can do it better.
Sometimes it is a matter of available applications, sometimes it is somewhat a tradition (AFAIK Apple has a long tradition in print-media), sometimes it is just a matter of taste or a hype.
 
Old 07-09-2011, 11:42 AM   #1092
Frank111
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I have nothing against windows or apple. but linux and unix will always be may main OSes to use.
COMMAND-LINE POWER !!!
 
Old 07-09-2011, 12:09 PM   #1093
baldy3105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerLinux View Post
A side question,
Why there are many people like Apple MAC OSX ?
I used apple before, I feel that it is not special, though user-friendly too,
but everything Apple can do Windows can do it better.
iWhat, like be virus proof? Yeah thats working well. So if Windows can do it better, why isn't it?
 
Old 07-09-2011, 01:27 PM   #1094
jonyo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumguy View Post
In a year of Linux use, I've never had to do anything like that. It's always been straight-forward and has always allowed me to control my computer and computing experience exactly as I wish it to be, without having to "trick" or "cheat" the OS to do it...but quite the contrary, Linux was made to allow those things which Windows tries to hinder...and THAT my friends, translates to a truly user-friendly experience.
and that my friends translates mostly to an insignificant minority

if linux truly was a user friendly experience, not to mention it is mostly free, folks would flock to it

numbers as in most things tells the tale

Last edited by jonyo; 07-09-2011 at 01:29 PM.
 
Old 07-09-2011, 01:40 PM   #1095
dalek
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonyo View Post
and that my friends translates mostly to an insignificant minority

if linux truly was a user friendly experience, not to mention it is mostly free, folks would flock to it

numbers as in most things tells the tale
Not quite true. Because M$ has the money to advertise and all, most people have never heard of Linux. So just because they use M$ doesn't mean they chose too. It could be that most of them don't know of any alternative except for Macs. So your numbers don't mean as much as you think.

 
  


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