...Weird

I don't think that's my case. I have "plasma wayland" and "plasma full wayland" in addition to "plasma with X". None of the wayland options seem to work. The GPU is Intel. There is the second one (nvidia-primus), but for the start I would like to just start a simple session on the first GPU.

Nope. The Window Manager is kwin_wayland (which BTW is a different binary than kwin_x11 used on X11 sessions) and it's also the Wayland display server.

A rootless X11 window (i.e. of Firefox) is managed by the Window Manager as window (i.e. window buttons, frame, events, etc) but the window content is updated via the XWayland server.

I am just going to outright say it and further point the obvious that clearly I haven't a clue what the fsck is going on and getting caught up into the web of all this....so I apologize for the further idiocy on my part but...

But kwin_wayland would obviously still require xorg , because it just wouldn't work without it right?

I remember seeing a thread about rootless X in the Slackware section but I paid no attention to it - however now I have to ask - if I am choosing the FULL Wayland Session (as seen in my previous post with my screenshot) , X is STILL running correct? So if it is , is it rootless at that point or no?

This is the issue. The Wayland still have issues with multiple graphic cards, specially those Primus things.

The kwin_wayland is a Wayland server/compositor and it does not run on top of Xorg.

This kwin_wayland is the Wayland display server itself, instead.

This "rootless" about I talk is different of that "rootless" which you refer.

Nope, it's not about running the Xorg binary as unprivileged user, instead of root user.

The rootless about I talk is a mode of running a X11 server, when it does not control the "root window" which is known better as "desktop" or "screen" , but only one or more particular windows.

And this rootless X11 mode is not some novelty, as it was used since long time by the X11 servers for Windows, to run X11 programs while controlling only their windows, not the entire desktop.

Finally, I do not recommend you to use Full Wayland sessions, because they are less stable - they force any application to use directly the Wayland API.

In fact, the "standard" Wayland sessions differ by offering both Wayland and X11 modes, and leaving the application to chose which one uses.

How many programs aren't fully ported to Wayland, some application may still chose X11.

For example, applications like Konsole or Dolphin prefers XWayland, while some others like System Settings prefers Wayland.

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The confusion here comes from the fact that many people think that Xorg's "window manager" somehow draws something. It doesn't. It only _manages" windows that Xorg draws on top of a "canvas", which is usually the GPU's memory buffer, but can be a memory buffer provided by another X, or by wayland.

It's in fact not mandatory, you can run an X session without any window manager, sort of, with windows appearing, well, somewhere.

With wayland, the window manager (compositor) actually draws the content of the windows on the canvas, which, again, can, and usually is, the GPU, but can be an X memory buffer.

Where is the debugging information for Wayland printed? There seems to be no /var/log/wayland.0.log

~/.local/share/sddm/wayland-session.log

Okay, one of the tricks was to add the user to the input group. (!)

X11 never required that, but I guess, because Xorg was running as root.

My touchpad does not work, and everything is super slow, but at least I can log into "kde full wayland".

Has anybody had success with sbo's weston?

Would this apply if trying Wayland, then going back to X11? Basically using X11, switch to Wayland, then switch back to X11.

I had some no go clipboard issues with Wayland last time I tried it. It has been awhile since I last tried. I always start Plasma from runlevel 3 using startx. For Wayland I used startkwayland. Logging out is a huge problem right now, I don't get the CLI interface back after exiting Plamsa (X11), no keyboard response, I can log in via ssh and reboot. Same issue happens on my laptop as well. I did the same with that.

I suppose I could give Wayland another try and see what happens I think by now the clipboard issue should have been solved.

I plan (maybe) on doing a clean install after 15.0 lands.

Maybe? All I know is that both plasma-X11 and plasma-wayland use the same set of config files, but a configuration that works for X11 might behave strangely when starting as wayland. Specifically this was an issue for me with global scaling. When I changed global scaling while in wayland and then switched back to X, the setting still applied but was super messed up. This just means that KDE is not isolating the configuration for wayland vs X.

So for all those people who want to "give wayland a try", you should really do that with a clean user profile that has never used KDE. If you've been running KDE under X and then just hop into the wayland version via SDDM, stuff might seem broken.


I remember months ago I had issues logging out but recently everything has been fine. Since I haven't messed with wayland in a while so I may have ended up resetting the whatever config file was causing that problem.

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Thanks. This has been a very annoying issue for me for a long time. This is a ray of hope. I gave startkwayland a try earlier, ftom this account, it was terrible. Resolution was off, mouse was shaky, on logging out, the mouse was not very responsive at all, I finally got to the log out button at about 12 seconds left on the count down. I had to reboot to get startx to work again. I also tried a new user, it was a much better experience, but my screen resolution was still off it should be 1366x768 vice 1280x1024, the option was available but it would not take. My monitor was not recognized either, it is with X11. Screen was clear and readable though, mouse was responsive until I decided to logout. Then it acted as I described earlier. I didn't bother to check my clip board issue. Screen was much better the last time I tried to use Wayland. Back to X11, I don't think Wayland is ready for prime-time yet at least on my hardware. I guess I am going to have to bite the bullet and clear out my kde profile stuff and see if this helps with my logout issue. I may do my laptop first as it has less configuration issues than this desktop.

The sbo build of weston seems to need patching to work with elogind instead of systemd.

I've tried plasma/wayland a few times and that's my general conclusion as well. Perhaps Gnome on wayland is working well enough for a distro like Fedora officially endorse, but Plasma on wayland has a few issues still.

The KDE devs maintain a list of known "show stoppers" for Plasma/Wayland here, in case you want to see the known issues before trying to move to Wayland: https://community.kde.org/Plasma/Wayland_Showstoppers

Edit: This is just to say that the plasma combination with wayland isn't 100% yet. Other WMs/DEs like Sway+Wayland may be better, I haven't bothered to try anything other than stock Slackware packages however.

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