Kali Linux sticky thread?

Thanks again, jsbjsb001. I'd say post in Linux - Newbie once you've added the last link and we'll sticky. From there we can edit based on feedback once we start linking to the thread in new Kali posts.

--jeremy

Originally Posted by jeremy Thanks again, jsbjsb001. I'd say post in Linux - Newbie once you've added the last link and we'll sticky. From there we can edit based on feedback once we start linking to the thread in new Kali posts. --jeremy

I've added the link ondoho suggested to the "More Resources" section and replaced "and" with "," in the "What is Kali Linux?" section. Thanks again for your support Jeremy!

Because of recent private messages with rtmistler concerning the "Sticky" along with some recent threads like this one (along with other threads), as well as some comments within have prompted me to ask the following question; Should there be a revision of the "Sticky" in the Newbie forum?

I was in fact recently discussing with rtmistler the idea that Emerson suggested here could be included in the "Sticky". And it seems from this comment in particular in Hazel's 'banning kali linux' thread (not that I blame her), that there could be room for improvement.

Possibly under "Who should be using Kali Linux?", the following:

• Something that says something like this: "if the OP can opt for a 'newbie friendly distro', there's a better chance that someone will help them with their problem(s)".
  
• Also: "some members may feel and expect that, people using Kali Linux should be not only experienced, but also that you are using Kali Linux for it's intended purposes."

Under "Where can I get some help for my Kali Linux issues??"

• "if you have an issue that could not be described as a 'basic configuration issue', that involves using Kali Linux for it's intended purposes..." ..., this link.

I have also marked this thread as "Unsolved" rather than replying to Hazel's thread given that while it's not really the same question as the initial ones in this thread, but on the other hand it does concern the "Sticky" in question. Hope you don't mind Jeremy.

So I guess... does anyone have any comments about it...?

I just thought it was worth asking.

Originally Posted by jsbjsb001 I was in fact recently discussing with rtmistler the idea that Emerson suggested here could be included in the "Sticky". And it seems from this comment in particular in Hazel's 'banning kali linux' thread (not that I blame her), that there could be room for improvement.

i fully agree with Emerson's & jlinkels comments there. '
esp. about the implications and dangers of using kali as a normal desktop distro.
we are doing part of kali's community work here, and maybe someone should check back on their forums what they have to say about the problem (i suspect they do, and i suspect it is one of the reasons why we get so many).

My suggestions:

Change: , as Kali Linux will not be suitable for the newbie/beginner. (or just add)
To: You will very likely get much better help here with a distro suitable for the newbie/beginner. Also, without the appropriate experience, you will likely be unable to achieve the desired results with Kali. Note also that there could be legal issues resulting from improper 'pentesting'.

Change: basic configuration issues.
To: basic Kali configuration issues which can readily be resolved by web-searching.
Note the importance of basic skills like: effective web use, effective commnication, etc.

(The last sentence alludes to my 'rant' about the need/requirement for/of life's basic 'soft skills'. OT: @rtmistler: Where's the 'sticky' for this?)

Add these links to 'More Resources' at bottom:
Question Guidelines
How to Ask A Smart Question



Edit: I forgot this piece. Maybe add as paragraph under "What is Kali?"

A warning about using Linux as root, to which Kali defaults: Not only does it render the system defenseless, but the novice user also will not get the correct UNIX experience and skills. The policy that: everything is denied by default, an important cornerstone of computer security, is totally absent (by design) in Kali Linux. Refer to: https://docs.kali.org/policy/kali-li...ot-user-policy

(This may spark some debate about 'always root' [which is my RFC1918 preference]
But the sticky is Closed, so n00bs etc can't .... in it )

Happy to update the sticky once there is a coherent new post for it, or edit of the original which is clear and concise, as the original sticky is presently.

Please remember that no one, new or old, likes to read disorganized content.

User "!!!" perhaps the sticky you are searching for is here?

These sticky threads are only as good, as our added referencing of them. By that I mean:

1. New users may choose to read it, they may choose to not read it, or they may view it but still not really consider what it is saying.
2. When a new user seems to have ignored the advice in one or more sticky threads, then we should point them to the reference, and say no more until the OP updates their thread.

@SIDE-TOPIC: It would be helpful when an OP edits their post as opposed to adding a reply, that we get email about it.

I was originally reluctant to add anymore content to the sticky in the interests of trying to keep it clear, on-point and as short as I could. So I hope my following suggestion (if added to the sticky) won't be too much info for the OP. As I worry that if it's too long, people may well just skim over it and not read it all.

The text in this color is what I'm "proposing" to add/change, I've only included the section that I think most likely could be improved. I think this link and this link should be added to "More Resources" at the bottom of the sticky. I would also ask that to reflect that the sticky has been "improved", there should be in the "Edited by ... Reason: ..." line something to the effect "REVISION 1.0 date_here". (or "UPDATED date_here")

Who should be using Kali Linux?

Because of the above, Kali Linux has been designed for ICT security professionals and is not recommended for Linux newbies/beginners. This is because Kali Linux requires a good understanding of both networking and the administration of Linux based operating systems.

If you are not well-versed in administrating Linux based operating systems, you are strongly advised to choose a far more suitable Linux distribution, as Kali Linux will not be suitable for the newbie/beginner.

Please understand that this is for at least a couple of reasons:

• The developers of Kali Linux explicitly state on their website that Kali Linux is not intended to be a "general purpose" system. They do not support the use of Kali Linux for anything other than it's intended purposes.
  
• Kali Linux by default runs as the root user; this account has all permissions and can access any part of the system. It is for this reason that using the root user account for daily tasks is a very big security risk and will render the system defenceless.
  
• If you are new to Linux and/or do not have the necessary experience required, you in all likelihood will be unable to use Kali Linux for it's intended purposes. In addition, it will be highly likely that you will run into problems, particularly when trying to use it for anything other than it's intended purposes.
  
• It can be highly frustrating for members of LQ to answer Kali Linux related questions such as (but not limited to) configuring Internet/network connections, creating user accounts, fixing graphical environment issues, etc. This is because a lot of LQ members expect that people using Kali Linux will not only have the required experience behind them, they will also be using Kali Linux for and solely it's intended purposes. As a consequence, most LQ members may be unwilling to assist people seeking help with basic configuration issues and/or people who are not using Kali Linux for it's intended purposes.

Please understand that, in addition, some members may not even read Kali Linux related posts for the reasons above and therefore, it's far more likely that; If you are willing to use a far more suitable Linux distribution, it's far more likely that members would be all too happy to try and help you.

Hopefully this isn't too much info...

I would ask that enough time is given before anything is added to the sticky, so that members can have ample time to make further suggestions.

Originally Posted by jsbjsb001 Hopefully this isn't too much info...

Yes, it is. The target audience did not even complete the readme on the Kali site, remember?

I fully agree with the revised version though. Well done. If LQ member can point to the sticky instead of waisting their time (and starting discussions among themselves because the OP never logs back in again anyway) it has served its purpose.

jlinkels

Originally Posted by jlinkels Yes, it is. The target audience did not even complete the readme on the Kali site, remember? I fully agree with the revised version though. Well done. If LQ member can point to the sticky instead of waisting their time (and starting discussions among themselves because the OP never logs back in again anyway) it has served its purpose. jlinkels

Yeah, I was afraid of that.
And yeah, I agree with your point. (both points)

I've tried to shorten this draft as much as I can, while keeping the additional points.

(once again the text proposed for the sticky is in red below)

Who should be using Kali Linux?

Because of the above, Kali Linux has been designed for ICT security professionals and is not recommended for Linux newbies/beginners. This is because Kali Linux requires a good understanding of both networking and the administration of Linux based operating systems.

If you are not well-versed in administrating Linux based operating systems, you are strongly advised to choose a far more suitable Linux distribution, as Kali Linux will not be suitable for the newbie/beginner.

Please understand that this is for at least a couple of reasons:

• The developers of Kali Linux explicitly state on their website that Kali Linux is not intended to be a "general purpose" system.
  
• Kali Linux by default runs as the root user; this account has all permissions and can access any part of the system - very big security risk and will render the system defenceless!
  
• If you are new to Linux and/or do not have the necessary experience required, you in all likelihood will be unable to use Kali Linux for it's intended purposes and, highly likely that you will run into problems.

It can be highly frustrating for members of LQ to answer Kali Linux related questions such as (but not limited to) configuring Internet/network connections, creating user accounts, fixing graphical environment issues, etc.

This is because a lot of LQ members expect that people using Kali Linux will not only have the required experience behind them, they will also be using Kali Linux for and solely it's intended purposes. As a consequence, most LQ members may be unwilling to assist people seeking help with basic configuration issues and/or people who are not using Kali Linux for it's intended purposes. In addition, some members may not even read Kali Linux related posts.

Please understand that, for the reasons above;

If you are willing to use a far more suitable Linux distribution, it's far more likely that members would be all too happy to try and help you.

Hopefully this draft isn't too long and please, if you can think of any improvements and/or have any suggestions/comments, please feel free to chime in here.

In reviewing the existing sticky as well as your present draft, it seems all of the same thoughts are conveyed with both versions, and just that the updated draft is more brief. Fine, they are both well written.

Therefore why change it? Have we yet had one new user, view the sticky and say that they didn't follow the point of it?

It's probably far more direct to explicitly state something insulting about their huge, but misdirected enthusiasm all due to some TV show.

If they're not going to read 5 paragraphs, then they're not going to read 3 paragraphs, as well as they're not going to read it at all, probably unless it actually shows a bunch of content that grabs their eye, such as images from the show. And then it's not the sticky LQ members wish it to be.

I can't see them reading one sentence, let alone multiple paragraphs...

You are dealing with people who didn't read the documentation in the first place, nor the information provided on this particular distribution's own website:

https://docs.kali.org/introduction/s...use-kali-linux

They already know what the distribution is for, they already know they lack the necessary skill or experience and they register here, at a "general purpose" forum, with the full intent to talk someone into walking them through using the system/bailing them out of trouble in their personal quest to be a "hacker"...

In my humble opinion, this thread is yet another futile attempt at "educating" new LQ members. And when all is said and done, the best approach is to just ignore them if you find those threads annoying. The admins of this site don't want to ban the discussion (which would be a viable approach), so that really only leaves two options...

One more idea: I noticed reddit/r/linux4noobs forum
is willing to accept such ("rubbish" to quote other thread).
So, maybe another 'Resource' could be that reddit forum
(but Idk lq policy on ref to other forums)

A gramatical note: (I can spot but definately not correct=help_write)
For example, there are two 'nested/recursive' "because" in first paragraph.
Another: "use for and solely its purpose". (Again, Idk how to write it)

Maybe a 'grammar officianado' could contribute edits here.
Or maybe it's fine as-is, and I'm being overly 'picky'. Idk.

Yes, 'link&done'.

It didn't take long for a "classic example" to materialise: https://www.linuxquestions.org/quest...nt-4175618148/

It's a futile excercise to try to "educate" such users and point them to sticky threads.

It may be more worthwhile to target existing long term users and try to 'educate' them to not waste their time responding...

Originally Posted by cynwulf It didn't take long for a "classic example" to materialise: https://www.linuxquestions.org/quest...nt-4175618148/ It's a futile excercise to try to "educate" such users and point them to sticky threads. It may be more worthwhile to target existing long term users and try to 'educate' them to not waste their time responding...

While I can understand your point (and don't totally disagree with it either) and while it may not work with everyone, the facts are that it's not only something members can point the OP to, it has worked for at least some people. One example here.

As jlinkels has said in other related Kali threads, once the OP has been pointed to the sticky (and/or other info) and they still want to ask anyway; THEN it's time to ignore them.

"Educating" long term members is going to achieve nothing. Banning is going to achieve nothing.

Also, the sticky has already been posted and sticky'd, so there's really no point in arguing about weather there should be a sticky or not, it's already posted...

The question now is, does it need a revision?

Originally Posted by cynwulf It may be more worthwhile to target existing long term users and try to 'educate' them to not waste their time responding...

I love that example, well done.

About the long term users, if they want to waste their time, it is their choice. Linux is about freedom as we know. It would not be the first time that a first time visitor throws a one-line question in here, which results in 3 pages of discussion among LQ members, while the OP never checks back. I can point to such examples.

I agree with jsbjsb001's approach. And let's not waste too much effort.

jlinkels