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Old 10-16-2014, 03:06 PM   #121
jamison20000e
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Why does everyone hate bloat?
 
Old 10-18-2014, 01:37 AM   #122
Randicus Draco Albus
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Quote:
5) I don't like apt-get. I can use it, but I don't like it. Its interface just doesn't appeal to me, and it's slower than any other package management system I've used.
Apt-get and aptitude were never slow for me. But then I was using Debian. If it is slow on Ubuntu, it is most likely due to whatever the blind butchers at Comical do to it.

Quote:
6) I am vehemently against Canonical's approach to "security" that they force on their users. Not only do they default to the stupid first-user-is-an-admin-with-unlimited-sudo practice, they will BAN any user from their support forum who tells somebody how to enable the root account without including some ridiculous warnings about how it's a bad idea and they need to disable it when they're done.
Must be Shuttleworth's interpretation of user-friendly.
 
Old 10-18-2014, 07:45 AM   #123
jamison20000e
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LOL. APT slow, install different managers to try or fastest of all use CLI??!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Packaging_Tool
 
Old 10-18-2014, 08:34 AM   #124
greatbear
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Reasons some people may hate it:
1. It successfully combines open source with closed source. Some people consider that to undermine open source, which is a movement meant to do good. If you destroy or damage something that does good, then you are doing something bad.

2. It provides a lot of online documentation and encourages many noobs to use the commandline. Some people don't appreciate that, because it increases the supply of computer techs or because it lowers the bar for entry. Not everyone who uses open source wants other people to have it without going through the same amount of difficulty that they had to go through.

3. It introduces Marketing spy-ware into an open source product. This tests or demonstrates the viability of spy-ware with Linux on open source PC's to help pay for development costs. Many consider this a threat to the open source concept. Such ploys are already effectively used with Android tablets, Chrome, Apple computers and many other systems. Marketing spyware is likely a large encroaching threat to the freedom of open-source-ness. Since there are non-spyware alternatives such as Debian and Red-Hat, Ubuntu is the unloved child.

4. Ubuntu was started by an astronaut, not by a group of starving programmers. It feels different than many other open source projects, particularly since it began with funding supplied. Usually an open source project starts with no funding.

Last edited by greatbear; 10-18-2014 at 08:37 AM.
 
Old 10-20-2014, 12:37 PM   #125
rtmistler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greatbear View Post
Reasons some people may hate it:
1. It successfully combines open source with closed source. Some people consider that to undermine open source, which is a movement meant to do good. If you destroy or damage something that does good, then you are doing something bad.

2. It provides a lot of online documentation and encourages many noobs to use the commandline. Some people don't appreciate that, because it increases the supply of computer techs or because it lowers the bar for entry. Not everyone who uses open source wants other people to have it without going through the same amount of difficulty that they had to go through.

3. It introduces Marketing spy-ware into an open source product. This tests or demonstrates the viability of spy-ware with Linux on open source PC's to help pay for development costs. Many consider this a threat to the open source concept. Such ploys are already effectively used with Android tablets, Chrome, Apple computers and many other systems. Marketing spyware is likely a large encroaching threat to the freedom of open-source-ness. Since there are non-spyware alternatives such as Debian and Red-Hat, Ubuntu is the unloved child.

4. Ubuntu was started by an astronaut, not by a group of starving programmers. It feels different than many other open source projects, particularly since it began with funding supplied. Usually an open source project starts with no funding.
Huh? Maybe those are some reasons you dislike it.

Started by an astronaut? Really? Didn't know that till I looked it up, and I'd say that as: "Space tourist with some money." Doesn't bother me though. The part about "starving programmers" bothers me a bit because programmers aren't in general starving, nor do they have to be to create a distribution.

Encourages the use of the command line? I don't really see that. And would I hate that? No, in fact I usually encourage the use of the command line. I don't care if someone's system illiterate or not, that's why many of us are on the forums, to help people. I even tend to try to help people beyond a normal tolerance level, acknowledging that they don't always understand what they're asking.

Not sure about the claims of spyware and open versus closed source. I use it, made the point earlier that claims about Linux support for software many times say that it was "tested against Ubuntu version ...." I mean, it has Firefox, LibreOffice, Evolution ... I thought all that was open source. The upgrade thing has options to never check and I choose that option, I also uncheck any "send a report to Ubuntu" if/when I see it. I need something new, I install the package via the command line or I get the source and then make, install from the command line. Further, when I look at shell commands and my scripting environment, I'm not noticing situations where it becomes ... "Oh ... you're using Ubuntu and THAT'S why 'ls' or 'grep' or 'bin/sh' works differently than the rest of the world. So ... where's all this closed source? I haven't done it, but you can download their kernel and rebuild it.

There's a forum poll on what each of our first distributions were. I've thought about creating a poll about what distributions people use. And creating it to allow for multiple answers. One reason why I haven't made such a poll is mainly because I'm not all knowing about distros out there and pretty certain no matter how hard I prepared the poll (there are also limitations on poll options) there'd be quite a few "you forgot ...." statements. Perhaps I will, because I do wonder what people are using right now.

Here's the poll about what the fist distro you used: http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...ro-4175467184/. Note that Ubuntu is in the top three. I find that interesting.
 
Old 10-20-2014, 12:40 PM   #126
jamison20000e
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I like the name.
 
Old 10-20-2014, 12:50 PM   #127
rokytnji
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Because Ubuntu says Take or Leave it or get off my lawn.

Some people don't like that.
 
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Old 10-20-2014, 12:52 PM   #128
rytuklis
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I don't get why people don't like Ubuntu. I've been a Windows user for 6 years and just a few days ago I shifted to Linux. I tried Mint and Zorin but Ubuntu 14 was the only Distro that got me attracted so I stayed on it. So far I love it. I just do. I guess it's a thing of preference really. Some people like that modern look Ubuntu gives, other people like the better desktop freedom that Zorin and Mint can provide. But I stick with Ubuntu.
 
Old 10-20-2014, 04:18 PM   #129
Ihatewindows522
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gor0 View Post
I start...

Without having done absolutely no updates started to fail windows on Unity or Shell or whatever...happened to anyone?
Personally 'cause I've had trouble installing it, trouble with the shell, trouble with Mir, trouble with the kernel, and trouble with drivers. I won't even mention the spyware.

Distros like openSUSE have not given me much grief.
 
Old 10-20-2014, 04:25 PM   #130
jamison20000e
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Malware is a must in a proprietary OS!
 
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Old 10-22-2014, 12:34 PM   #131
Ihatewindows522
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Originally Posted by jamison20000e View Post
Malware is a must in a proprietary OS!
And don't forget spyware!
 
Old 10-22-2014, 01:19 PM   #132
littleball
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I don,t hate *untu distros (But I admit I did hate them before) guess I have grown up mentally enough to accept that OS are for people to choose from. Now, personally I don,t use any *untu distro on my own, I do work with *untu distros at work since they work with them. I am not very aware of, nowadays how *untu works (even if I use it a work, I only use to search on internet, read files, view videos). The things I didn,t like about *untu before and I don,t know if nowadays they have solved it...was, that the distro use to be extremely insecure, the "sudo root" to everybody is risky, I remember once the main "root" password in Ubuntu come as default in plain text with 777 permissions, and very few *untu users even known that there were a hidden "root" password on their system that anyone could read....security didn,t seem like a concern for *untu flavours at that once, don,t know today. Also, every time someone that used *untu upgrade or update and reboot, there were a whole mess and the system didn,t boot, I fixed a few of my friends notebook after *untu update, some of those updates modified inittab to default runlevel 6 (honestly???), other of my friend after *untu update couldn,t boot because the updated kernel "forgot" to run depmod -- and I had to do it manually. Also the apt-get thing repo installing stuff from third party source repository and breaking plenty of dependencies (dependency hell?) same thing used to happen when I try Debian. Also, *untu have a few "hiden default services" running since the system start, plenty of users don,t know about this, but there are services running and sending bug report and whose knows if personal information to Canonical (this looks like Windows sending your personal info to Microsoft?) I mean come on!...

I use Slackware (Kiss friendly), plain, vanilla, no hidden stuff, I need to manage my packages installation but since most of the third party software I have to compile from source, there won,t be broken dependencies, like some package managers (aka apt-get, yum, etc) do.

But I recognize that *untu fits perfectly to plenty of users on the world, if you,re happy with it keep it. Personally I won,t use it, for taste and for bad experience with it, but I don,t hate it, if someone ask my opinion about if they should use some *untu flavour, I will said try it, if you don,t like it go for another distro, there are plenty of linux distros to choose from, keep with the one you feel most confident.

Last edited by littleball; 10-22-2014 at 01:25 PM.
 
Old 10-22-2014, 01:29 PM   #133
rtmistler
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I wondering about these spyware/malware claims. What's the substance behind this people? I use Ubuntu. I don't have things popping up annoying me. I've not had system problems. I don't accept upgrades and instead install a new LTS at the time of my choosing. Any things that do come up asking me if I want to offer feedback, I reject mainly because that's my personal behavior. But I don't see much of that happen.

Malware to me is advertisements which perpetuate and draw down my system where I end up having to reinstall my OS just to get it clean. OK that happened a lot with Windows, but NEVER with my Ubuntu system.

Spyware is similar to Malware, however spyware is also more to the effect of stuff designed to either grab my most personal information or to grab focused information so they can make advertisements tailored to suit what they think I need. Yeah ... I can see that happening in a browser, but I don't see it anywhere else. I see it happen in the browser because I end up having to accept and allow scripts to run just to view content sometimes and as much as I try to protect, you end up having to wage battle against those sites because they try, try, try so hard to get it so you accept and share all cookies and so forth. But that's a BROWSER thing; one which I deal with in Windows as well as Linux via Add-Ons to Firefox, or consider a different browser - which I haven't ever done yet.

And the final difference is again. In Windows, eventually if some of that stuff breaks through, it ends up being able to install programs, services, or whatever and then no matter even if I'm not running my browser, I end up screwed. That's just never happened in Linux.

In fact in Linux, if I remove the cookies and basically reset all my allowances, remove sites from my list of trusted ones; basically clear the decks. Then two things happen: (1) I can't get all content on pretty much a lot of sites (2) any invasive scripts, flash apps, whatever can't run. In short, I've NEVER had problems transcend a reboot of Linux like you can have with Windows.

So ....

Tell me how to detect/monitor/determine if I'm ignorant and really end up do having spyware/malware.

Or

Give something more substantive to those claims. Because I'm just not seeing that.

Last edited by rtmistler; 10-22-2014 at 01:34 PM.
 
Old 10-22-2014, 01:36 PM   #134
suicidaleggroll
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rtmistler View Post
Spyware is similar to Malware, however spyware is also more to the effect of stuff designed to either grab my most personal information or to grab focused information so they can make advertisements tailored to suit what they think I need. Yeah ... I can see that happening in a browser, but I don't see it anywhere else. I see it happen in the browser because I end up having to accept and allow scripts to run just to view content sometimes and as much as I try to protect, you end up having to wage battle against those sites because they try, try, try so hard to get it so you accept and share all cookies and so forth. But that's a BROWSER thing; one which I deal with in Windows as well as Linux via Add-Ons to Firefox, or consider a different browser - which I haven't ever done yet.

Give something more substantive to those claims. Because I'm just not seeing that.
Ubuntu sends information about the usage of your system to 3rd party retailers (eg: Amazon) so they can tailor ads to you. This is completely separate from any browser, it's built directly into the OS itself.

There are MANY articles about it all over the web. A quick google search should turn up hundreds.

You can op-out of it, but it's one of those things that's buried in the system configuration to the point where if you don't already know it's there, you probably won't find it by accident, and it's on by default.

Last edited by suicidaleggroll; 10-22-2014 at 01:42 PM.
 
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Old 10-22-2014, 03:32 PM   #135
littleball
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suicidaleggroll View Post
Ubuntu sends information about the usage of your system to 3rd party retailers (eg: Amazon) so they can tailor ads to you. This is completely separate from any browser, it's built directly into the OS itself.

There are MANY articles about it all over the web. A quick google search should turn up hundreds.

You can op-out of it, but it's one of those things that's buried in the system configuration to the point where if you don't already know it's there, you probably won't find it by accident, and it's on by default.

I was talking exactly about those things...hidden but running by default inside the OS since is a "builtin", not a plugin or widget that request your permission for anything...this is something "hidden" running by default..google search have plenty of info about this it,s harmless I think, but I don,t like when an OS send my info to whose knows what company without my permission or even my knowledge, there,s Windows OS for that, I don,t like the idea of Linux joining that club.

Quote:
So ....

Tell me how to detect/monitor/determine if I'm ignorant and really end up do having spyware/malware.
You,re not ignorant rtmistler for not knowing this dirty little secret of *untu flavours, believe me maybe 95% of *untu users don,t even know this sort of things exists in their OS, it,s not because ignorance, it,s because usually we,re not searching around what the OS is doing.

Last edited by littleball; 10-22-2014 at 03:46 PM.
 
  


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