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I made the switch from Windows about 3 weeks ago. I am running openSUSE 13.2 KDE exclusively. I am not a gamer and I found Linux works just fine for me. The learning curve was a little steeper than going from Windows 7 to Windows 8, 8.1. Installation took less than 20 minutes. The only thing I had to set up was my all in one HP printer scanner which was easy. What I see is people are afraid to try Linux because just about every video you see on YouTube about Linux they are using the terminal a lot which is a big turn off. They use the terminal to install software and update their system which I found yast2 can do all that. I don't understand why people using the terminal instead of yast2. The terminal is a so ancient way of using a computer.
The terminal is a so ancient way of using a computer.
I use and like the terminal even on Windows. Powershell is very powerful (especially if you know the guts of the Windows system) and even the old cmd.exe has lots of very useful commands at its disposal.
Same here, I would never have gotten any work done as a windows sa if I only had the GUI. It got worse when they went from 2000 to the XP/2003 interface and buried every setting a couple more menus deep with useless helptext you had to wade through.
I made the switch from Windows about 3 weeks ago. I am running openSUSE 13.2 KDE exclusively. I am not a gamer and I found Linux works just fine for me. The learning curve was a little steeper than going from Windows 7 to Windows 8, 8.1. Installation took less than 20 minutes. The only thing I had to set up was my all in one HP printer scanner which was easy. What I see is people are afraid to try Linux because just about every video you see on YouTube about Linux they are using the terminal a lot which is a big turn off. They use the terminal to install software and update their system which I found yast2 can do all that. I don't understand why people using the terminal instead of yast2. The terminal is a so ancient way of using a computer.
Please understand that I am not criticizing the use of a GUI but trying to direct users to the advantages of the command line(cli) over a GUI.
For a user that has been using UNIX/Gnu/Linux for years finds the cli as a very powerful tool. GUI or point & click operations are dependent on the GUI's' authors abilities to perform a desired task thus masking a user from details. When I am using the cli I know what is being done by the commands issued. You can have the same abilities by using the 'man command' to learn or understand the semantics & syntax for a particular command. Sure this can require a user to spend more time understanding or researching a command in order to perform task(s) but you will get things done efficiently once you learn the inner workings of the commands.
For new Gnu/Linux users, I suggest the following to help learn the system;
Quote:
Just a few links to aid you to gaining some understanding;
The above links and others can be found at 'Slackware-Links'. More than just SlackwareŽ links!
Some of the the links above may seem dated but are still relevant for a new user to learn basics that you can build on.
Plus these links will aid you in understanding some differences;
Quote:
(Linux is Not Windows) <- 'Refer to the GNU/Linux OS and various Free & Open-Source Software (FOSS) projects under the catch-all name of "Linux". It scans better.' + Great Article Comparison of Windows and Linux <- 'Comparisons between the Microsoft Windows and Linux computer operating systems are a long-running discussion topic within the personal computer industry.' + Great Wiki
I made the switch from Windows about 3 weeks ago. I am running openSUSE 13.2 KDE exclusively.
Welcome. You'll probably find yourself trying other flavours sooner than you think.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crippled
I don't understand why people using the terminal instead of yast2. The terminal is a so ancient way of using a computer.
It's like to touring a country with a different language. You can get by using a phrasebook (analogous to a GUI, works well if the phrase you want is there) or you can learn the language and enjoy the subtleties (analogous to a terminal).
When I was using Windows I found using a terminal (command prompt, from memory?) was sometimes the easiest and quickest way of getting something done.
Welcome. You'll probably find yourself trying other flavours sooner than you think.
It's like to touring a country with a different language. You can get by using a phrasebook (analogous to a GUI, works well if the phrase you want is there) or you can learn the language and enjoy the subtleties (analogous to a terminal).
When I was using Windows I found using a terminal (command prompt, from memory?) was sometimes the easiest and quickest way of getting something done.
I don't see it that way. For me GUI speaks my language and the terminal is a foreign language.
It is simply a different paradigm than the GUI pointy-clicky method of doing things. It is actually much more powerful and versatile for a great many tasks. Do not fear the terminal or think of it as old, embrace it and learn what it offers you. And it is NOT difficult - that is just more propaganda.
As you learn GNU/Linux you should study up a little on its Unix foundations. It is actually a core design principle that everything is text, and there are some exceedingly good reasons for that, and a tremendous amount of benefit from it!
Under Unix, and Linux, the shell is, by design, the primary user interface to the system. The GUI is bolted onto the underlying text system and most of those GUI tools are simply graphical front-ends for fully text based programs.
If you do not make use of the shell you will never understand the real power of the Unix ideas based on text in, text out, pipes and files. Great stuff!
It's not M$ propaganda. The terminal is a foreign language. The terminal does have it's uses when the GUI doesn't offer that use in certain cases just like in Windows, but Linux propaganda makes it look like the way to use Linux is through it's terminal instead of it's multiple powerful GUI's.
Please understand that I am not criticizing the use of a GUI but trying to direct users to the advantages of the command line(cli) over a GUI.
For a user that has been using UNIX/Gnu/Linux for years finds the cli as a very powerful tool. GUI or point & click operations are dependent on the GUI's' authors abilities to perform a desired task thus masking a user from details. When I am using the cli I know what is being done by the commands issued. You can have the same abilities by using the 'man command' to learn or understand the semantics & syntax for a particular command. Sure this can require a user to spend more time understanding or researching a command in order to perform task(s) but you will get things done efficiently once you learn the inner workings of the commands.
For new Gnu/Linux users, I suggest the following to help learn the system; Some of the the links above may seem dated but are still relevant for a new user to learn basics that you can build on.
Plus these links will aid you in understanding some differences;
Have fun & enjoy!
Hope this helps.
It's not M$ propaganda. The terminal is a foreign language.
No, the terminal IS the primary user interface for Unix/GNU/Linux. It IS the essential basis of the Unix/GNU/Linux operatng systems.
By uing the GUI exclusively you are trying to force GNU/Linux to be Window$ - something that it is not - a common newbie error, but still an error. It is just pretending.
There is an old saying: When in Rome do as the Romans do.
Well, when in GNU/Linux, do as the GNU/Linux operating system does. Otherwise you will find yourself banging against the walls at times in frustration, needlessly, and saying, "Why doesn't this work just like in Window$?". But you'll already know the answer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crippled
The terminal does have it's uses when the GUI doesn't offer that use in certain cases just like in Windows...
The truth is exactly the opposite - the terminal provides access to all the features and function of the operating system. The GUI provides only a subset of those, plus some natively graphical functions. The GUI is just a program that runs on the GNU/Linux operating system. You can run a full featured GNU/Linux system without a GUI even installed, and many do! The GUI is NOT a necessary integral part of the operating system as it is in Window$.
Again you make the invalid comparison - "just like in Window$". It is not just like in Window$ - it is very fundamentally different - you really need to understand that concept.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crippled
...but Linux propaganda makes it look like the way to use Linux is through it's terminal instead of it's multiple powerful GUI's.
It is not Linux propaganda that "makes it look like the way to use Linux is through the terminal", it is the foundation design principles of the operating system that make it work, and look that way.
It is the way it is. Until you make that adjustment in your understanding you will never grasp the actual power of of your computing machine running GNU/Linux.
Again, text in, text out, pipes, filters and files - that is the heart of Unix/GNU/Linux operating system principles. That is the usefulness of the operating system. Until you begin to grasp and use those ideas you are just pretending that it is just like Window$ and you will have not seen the nature of GNU/Linux.
Last edited by astrogeek; 09-28-2015 at 12:42 PM.
Reason: tpos, typs, typos
Distribution: Debian Sid AMD64, Raspbian Wheezy, various VMs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crippled
It's not M$ propaganda. The terminal is a foreign language. The terminal does have it's uses when the GUI doesn't offer that use in certain cases just like in Windows, but Linux propaganda makes it look like the way to use Linux is through it's terminal instead of it's multiple powerful GUI's.
GUI tools can, indeed, be easier and quicker to use when getting to know a system, personally, I find GUI tools are generally somehow easier and quicker to set GUI preferences and the discoverability of the settings (hidden nowadays but that's another story) means one can just change a setting without having to read a few pages of text -- I still prefer the graphical nvidia-settings for this kind of reason.
However, as Microsoft attests*, sometimes settings are more easily, more quickly and/or more efficiently changed via a terminal type interface. I know I prefer apt-get to messing with synaptic or some other GUI, for example.
No, the terminal IS the primary user interface for Unix/GNU/Linux. It IS the essential basis of the Unix/GNU/Linux operatng systems.
By uing the GUI exclusively you are trying to force GNU/Linux to be Window$ - something that it is not - a common newbie error, but still an error. It is just pretending.
There is an old saying: When in Rome do as the Romans do.
Well, when in GNU/Linux, do as the GNU/Linux operating system does. Otherwise you will find yourself banging against the walls at times in frustration, needlessly, and saying, "Why doesn't this work just like in Window$?". But you'll already know the answer.
The truth is exactly the opposite - the terminal provides access to all the features and function of the operating system. The GUI provides only a subset of those, plus some natively graphical functions. The GUI is just a program that runs on the GNU/Linux operating system. You can run a full featured GNU/Linux system without a GUI even installed, and many do! The GUI is NOT a necessary integral part of the operating system as it is in Window$.
Again you make the invalid comparison - "just like in Window$". It is not just like in Window$ - it is very fundamentally different - you really need to understand that concept.
It is not Linux propaganda that "makes it look like the way to use Linux is through the terminal", it is the foundation design principles of the operating system that make it work, and look that way.
It is the way it is. Until you make that adjustment in your understanding you will never grasp the actual power of of your computing machine running GNU/Linux.
Again, text in, text out, pipes, filters and files - that is the heart of Unix/GNU/Linux operating system principles. That is the usefulness of the operating system. Until you begin to grasp and use those ideas you are just pretending that it is just like Window$ and you will have not seen the nature of GNU/Linux.
I don't buy what you say. You fail to understand, openSUSE 13.2 KDE works just fine for me they way I use it. I am not a techi or a computer programer and I am not interested in being one. There are people that come from Windows that use Linux just like Windows and are happy with using Linux like Windows.
It is simple as that: With Linux becoming more popular it will attract all kinds of users, from the tech-wizards over power-users to the person that just uses the computer to play games on Facebook, occasionally uses some office programs and/or some multimedia stuff. While the CLI certainly is of great benefit for the tech-wizards and power-users, it doesn't offer that much to the more simple types of usage. Such a "simple" user will be fine with using Ubuntu or openSuse without ever touching the command line. Of course those "simple" users could benefit from using the command line in some cases, but they neither have a pressing need to do so, nor the interest in that topic that power-users have.
A tech-wizard or power-user telling a "simple" user that the CLI is the way to go is similar to "that car guy" telling a person that in order to drive they should fully understand how to assemble or disassemble a motor. While it may be helpful to have the knowledge, it is not necessary to use the car, in the same way that you can use a computer just fine without touching the CLI.
And no, using a computer that way is not "the Microsoft way", it is simply the mainstream way. Always remember that most computer users in the world aren't IT professionals and hobbyists, but your not technical minded brother, sister, parents or grandparents, just because the invention of the GUI made computers accessible for them.
I don't buy what you say. You fail to understand, openSUSE 13.2 KDE works just fine for me they way I use it. I am not a techi or a computer programer and I am not interested in being one. There are people that come from Windows that use Linux just like Windows and are happy with using Linux like Windows.
I am not selling anything, so nothing for you to buy.
I was, however trying to be helpful in pointing out the error in your perspective of the relationship between the terminal, the operating systems and the user - both for you and for any others who might read this thread in future.
You may continue to pretend that GNU/Linux is just like Window$, even happily so. But you are limiting yourself and there will be things that you cannot do and problems that you cannot solve because you refuse to learn a required basic skill for use of the operating system.
It was not my intent be argumentative, but to help correct the error in your understanding and expand your knowledge of the GNU/Linux operating system. You will get it or you won't, and I wish you good luck either way.
But, pretending that GNU/Linux is just like Window$ is ultimately harmful to both you and to GNU/Linux, so I encourage you to consider the points I have made when you are in a less defensive mode.
Last edited by astrogeek; 09-28-2015 at 01:46 PM.
Reason: tpos, typs, typos
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