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Old 11-05-2019, 08:43 AM   #76
Lysander666
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trewornan, good post, well done for dialling this back a bit. I can't really disagree with anything you've said above and yes, it's about how people view the world and personality type. My father is pro-EU and I am pro-Brexit, we have had discussions that go on for hours about it [sometimes quite animated discussions], which solve nothing. Actually, one thing they do end up showing us, oddly enough, is that we agree on a lot of the same points, but we have different ways of viewing and understanding those points.
 
Old 11-05-2019, 09:31 AM   #77
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The divide that is opening up in British politics has increasingly little to do with the old class-based left-right axis. Instead it is between those whom David Goodhart, in his book The Road to Somewhere, calls "somewheres" and "anywheres": people who are rooted in the country and town where they live and in its past, and people who are citizens of the world and could happily live anywhere.

It is possible that once politics have recrystallised around this new axis, the two sides will be able to tolerate each other just as left and right wing voters did in the England I grew up in. When voting patterns are stable, we have no reason to demonise "the other lot". Mostly we just ignore them. And stable voting patterns mostly go with mass membership parties, big parliamentary majorities and well-oiled government.

The pain and anger that fill our political life today may just be a side effect of the tearing apart of the old political fabric. I hope so anyway.
 
Old 11-05-2019, 09:54 AM   #78
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You gonna vote Hazel?

Don't worry, I can't vote myself as I don't live in the UK. And even if I did live there, I very much doubt I'd vote for any of them anyway, so I ain't judging
 
Old 11-05-2019, 11:45 AM   #79
hazel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsbjsb001 View Post
You gonna vote Hazel?
Read the thread again.

The vicar of my local church wrote something very pertinent in the church news sheet apropos Remembrance Sunday. He said that because those men died for (among other things) our freedom to vote, we have to exercise that freedom when election times come around. We don't have the right to throw their gift back in their faces.
 
Old 11-05-2019, 12:06 PM   #80
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Very true, Hazel. I get exasperated when I read of the people in the US who complain about the government but admit that they never voted. At least they have excuses of complex registration procedure and long waits at the polling stations. With automatic registration and fast voting, there's no excuse in the UK.
 
Old 11-06-2019, 03:33 AM   #81
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As Britain moves towards the election day, what are the emotive issues that the big parties (headed by BoJo and JeCo) are likely to play to the undecided / swing voter?

Or is it constituency / booth level management with some focus on local issues?

ok

Last edited by AnanthaP; 11-06-2019 at 03:55 AM.
 
Old 11-06-2019, 06:13 AM   #82
hazel
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London versus the provinces is a big one. It's not so much the countryside but all those small, once proud towns that have got left behind. Those people see London (and the City in particular) as a vampire that is sucking the country dry.

Anti-elitism of course. One of the great paradoxes of present-day politics is that the main populist leader is an ultra toff! He gets away with it because he constantly sends up his own toffishness and makes a joke out of it.

Last edited by hazel; 11-06-2019 at 06:17 AM.
 
Old 11-06-2019, 09:09 PM   #83
trewornan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnanthaP View Post
As Britain moves towards the election day, what are the emotive issues that the big parties (headed by BoJo and JeCo) are likely to play to the undecided / swing voter?

Or is it constituency / booth level management with some focus on local issues?

ok
Labour are going to hammer on the NHS and try to stoke fear that Boris is going to privatise it and sell it off to the US.

Lib Dems are going to hammer on remaining in the EU and stoke fear that the country will collapse if we leave.

Tories are going to hammer on Brexit and stoke fear that nobody else will honour the referendum (true for the other major parties) even though their new treaty is just remain by another name.
 
Old 11-07-2019, 01:49 PM   #84
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My prediction: Labour will win the genberal election, there will be a vote on whether to continue the process to leave the EU in about the second quarter of 2020 and the vote will be to remain. In the mean time scaremongers from both sides will have profited, the NHS will have lost staff and the UK will take a decade to recover.
This is what happens when people with no stake in the game get to gamble for those who have everything to loose. That's why democracies are a good idea -- perhaps the UK and US will implement democracy at some point but I doubt it.
 
Old 11-07-2019, 02:07 PM   #85
Lysander666
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 273 View Post
My prediction: Labour will win the genberal election
I doubt that immensely - my predication is a Tory coalition. Corbyn is just too strongly disliked, even by a lot of the left.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 273 View Post
That's why democracies are a good idea -- perhaps the UK and US will implement democracy at some point but I doubt it.
This country is indeed not a democracy, it's an oligarchy. We vote them in, they then do what the hell they like. And those votes are influenced in a myriad of ways most don't even realise.

Last edited by Lysander666; 11-07-2019 at 02:10 PM.
 
Old 11-07-2019, 02:45 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidMcCann View Post
Very true, Hazel. I get exasperated when I read of the people in the US who complain about the government but admit that they never voted. At least they have excuses of complex registration procedure and long waits at the polling stations. With automatic registration and fast voting, there's no excuse in the UK.
This past Tues. there was a local election for Mayor, city council members etc... A whopping 12% of registered voters actually voted. Other 88% want tyranny via lack of representation I guess.
 
Old 11-08-2019, 05:13 AM   #87
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This past Tues. there was a local election for Mayor, city council members etc... A whopping 12% of registered voters actually voted. Other 88% want tyranny via lack of representation I guess.
So in theory the local population could easily replace those leaders, but in practice they won't or can't. Is that an example of an end-stage republic?
 
Old 11-08-2019, 07:56 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lysander666 View Post
I doubt that immensely - my predication is a Tory coalition.
If I were a betting man, I would probably put a few quid on it. It's easy to guess who will be the coalition partner as well... (hint: It certainly won't be the clownish Brexit Party, because it's doubtful they will win any seats)

The Lib Dem's pledge to cancel Brexit, could be precisely what many in the Tory party need in order to safely U turn and do just that. If the Lib Dems do form a coalition with the Tories and then renege on that pledge, it will be "two strikes" for them and they will only be wiped out at the next election (as they were after the election following the last coalition).

It's said that Cameron predicted a continuation of the Tory / Lib Dem coalition following the election in 2015 - and this was why the referendum was promised during the campaign - because it was assumed that the Lib Dems would have blocked it.

It's feasible, that the coalition could "come to the rescue", albeit years later than expected, to stop Brexit in its tracks or achieve a compromise in the form of a "soft Brexit".

Last edited by cynwulf; 11-08-2019 at 08:01 AM.
 
Old 11-08-2019, 05:30 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastychomper View Post
So in theory the local population could easily replace those leaders, but in practice they won't or can't. Is that an example of an end-stage republic?
I think there is a growing trend of apathy where both parties appear more the same each election cycle and people throw their collective hands up saying "why bother". What they fail to realize is that creates the perfect scenario for the elites to continue their agenda unchallenged. I would love to see, in the near future, good/normal people rise up to challenge the status quo in each country and really rock the proverbial boat. "We The People" could/should apply to the world not just the USA where it has lost its meaning anyway. Time to rediscover our humanity/freedom etc... But that's my
 
Old 11-09-2019, 07:52 AM   #90
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Good point. To vote or not to vote, that is the question.

On the point of media, I just blocked the BBC in my hosts file. They've peddled some crap over time but their articles on the front page today are shameless garbage-class clickbait dross.

Electioncast: Thank goodness it's the weekend
What dentistry was like before anaesthetic (ouch!)
Man converts mobility scooter into 'tank'
Why I shared a bed with my ex for three months
Sex toys worth 1m stolen from lorry
Inmate claims he completed life sentence by dying
Has the National Gallery discovered a new Leonardo? (2 stars out of 5)
Eight life lessons with Caitlin Jenner


I'm sorry, is this the BBC or Love It! magazine?

Here you see the BBC employing classic clickbait tactics:

- an article on something we can all relate to [dentistry], something that most people hate, and how it used to be even worse;
- an article which has a word in inverted commas ['tank' in this case] means the implied subject is not actually the case, but can only be perceived to be that way or manipulated as such;
- some trashy story about relationships which may as well come from Eastenders;
- some ropey story about sex toys;
- a bizarre headline about someone who's dead but alive which seems to makes no sense until you click on the article [but is now #1 on trending];
- something with a question mark at the end [e.g. "has this...", "will this...", "does this..."] is sure to get attention - the addition of the 2/5 star rating in the headline is particular clickbait, encouraging people to think "why is the rating so bad?" and go to the article;
- the listicle [in this case "Eight life lessons with Caitlin Jenner"] is a very popular way to get hits. In this case they have made the focus a popular trans/feminist icon [both transgenderism and feminism being immensely popular topics at the moment] to get even more attention. This article really maxes out the clickbait potential, it's almost worthy of respect, the only way they could have got top marks is by amending the title to "Eight life lessons with Caitlin Jenner (lesson number 3 is shocking!)".

The BBC do not care about quality journalism anymore, just traffic. I'm so glad I don't pay a licence fee, they don't deserve it.

Last edited by Lysander666; 11-09-2019 at 07:57 AM.
 
  


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