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Old 01-03-2020, 05:53 AM   #211
Lysander666
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In the name of fairness and [hopefully] accuracy, I feel I should raise a couple of points here:

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidMcCann View Post
the people (how do they differ from "the people"?)
One is absolute, the other is relative, i.e. any political party can say that situation or policy X is what "the people" want as a way of getting votes. It's a fantastical definition of a society, it doesn't really exist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidMcCann View Post
And note the weasel-word "regime". As Wikipedia, which you seem to consider an authority, says "modern usage has given it a negative connotation, implying an authoritarian government or dictatorship…" Back on ignore for you!
But he did say...

Quote:
Originally Posted by cynwulf View Post
To me that definition is flawed, extremely flawed, but it's likely the definition of populism as touted by political parties which support the established status quo.
The point being made, I think, is that the Wiki definition of populism is incorrect, however, it is the definition that is being publicly promoted [and is therefore the definition which will likely be adopted]. So the idea is that others consider Wikipedia an authority, and that is worth noting since it will influence public opinion.
 
Old 01-03-2020, 06:42 AM   #212
jsbjsb001
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Hate to be the proverbial turd in the fruit salad but...

Quote:
Originally Posted by hazel View Post
...
2) His promises were so extravagant that everyone was laughing at him. You can't tell people for 364 days that if it seems too good to be true it isn't true, and then expect them on day 365 to vote for the politician who found the magic money tree.

So a clear majority in parliament meant a clear majority for Boris Johnson, simply because no one else could get one.
While from what I saw you pretty much, if not, hit the nail smack bang on the head... doesn't any political party (particularly the major parties) suddenly "find a magic money tree" come each and every election? I know here where I live, they sit and talk about why they haven't got the money to fund this, that and whatever else properly, but come election time, you'd be forgiven for thinking that they are rolling in it with all of the "spending" they "promise".

As for the word "regime", while it's usually said to mean a "dictatorship"; it does have other meanings, and therefore could refer to a legitimate "regime" (not as in a "government" of some description)...

It's also worth remembering that it's not as if western governments haven't been cozy with what most would agree to be a "dictatorship" - usually because of economic "interests", etc.
 
Old 01-03-2020, 06:50 AM   #213
ondoho
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It saddens me that people apparently do not recognize the dangers of the substantial growth of a new (*) type of "politics".
Whether I call it populist or not, whether it is deployed by ALL parties and politicians (to some extent at least) or whether it's the hallmark of a very particular type of party, doesn't really matter.
Certainly "social" media and its algorithms has amplified the effect to worrying levels.

But I'm beginning to repeat myself, guess I better shut up now.

(*) not all that new if you believe this docu.
 
Old 01-03-2020, 07:03 AM   #214
hazel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsbjsb001 View Post
doesn't any political party (particularly the major parties) suddenly "find a magic money tree" come each and every election? I know here where I live, they sit and talk about why they haven't got the money to fund this, that and whatever else properly, but come election time, you'd be forgiven for thinking that they are rolling in it with all of the "spending" they "promise".
Yes, of course they do. But a sensible politician strikes a balance between promising to fund popular policies and not offending people's common sense by promising the impossible. Corbyn's promises were extravagant and ridiculous, and that showed contempt for the electorate. So they responded by showing their contempt for him.

Of course he is not and never has been a politician. That's why his followers love him. Just as Boris is loved because (although he is a politician to his fingertips) he doesn't look or act like one. They are both populists in their different ways, though I bet Cynwulf wouldn't agree with me there. Like a lot of people, he thinks populism is only a right-wing thing.
 
Old 01-03-2020, 07:09 AM   #215
jsbjsb001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hazel View Post
...
Of course he is not and never has been a politician. That's why his followers love him. Just as Boris is loved because (although he is a politician to his fingertips) he doesn't look or act like one. They are both populists in their different ways, though I bet Cynwulf wouldn't agree with me there. Like a lot of people, he thinks populism is only a right-wing thing.
I do agree with you Hazel. Populism is basically becoming the new norm, the "anti-politician becoming a politician to shake things up" and deliver for those poor forgotten and left behind souls, that are under the misguided belief that they honestly give a rats ass about the "poor/working class man/woman" to begin with. I must agree in that, how sad. Our world is getting stupider and stupider...

Last edited by jsbjsb001; 01-03-2020 at 07:46 AM. Reason: fixed spelling mistake
 
Old 01-03-2020, 08:14 AM   #216
cynwulf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsbjsb001 View Post
As for the word "regime", while it's usually said to mean a "dictatorship"; it does have other meanings, and therefore could refer to a legitimate "regime" (not as in a "government" of some description)...
I regard the "regime" as the current political setup and status quo and yes I regard that negatively. It transcends party politics - the Blair era Labour government demonstrated that, as did the Liberal Democrat and Tory coalition.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hazel View Post
Corbyn's promises were extravagant and ridiculous, and that showed contempt for the electorate. So they responded by showing their contempt for him.
Only time will tell on just how "extravagant and ridiculous" Johnson's promises will turn out to be. We'll have to see if his magic NHS tree flowers or not... history shows that they only care about the NHS come election time. The rest of the time they are busily carving it up into trusts and starving it of funds ready for a sell off.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hazel View Post
Like a lot of people, he thinks populism is only a right-wing thing.
Wrong, but then we're back to "what is populism"... i.e. is the popular description of populism actually populism in action...

Last edited by cynwulf; 01-03-2020 at 08:18 AM.
 
Old 01-03-2020, 08:54 AM   #217
jsbjsb001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cynwulf View Post
I regard the "regime" as the current political setup and status quo and yes I regard that negatively. It transcends party politics - the Blair era Labour government demonstrated that, as did the Liberal Democrat and Tory coalition.
...
Yeah, that was pretty much my point - the word "regime" could refer to a number of contexts. In that: it doesn't just mean a "dictatorship", ie. a non-elected government. Therefore it could mean an elected government, a set of policies, and many other things.

FWIW, I also very much regard the political setup/government here (particularly our "federal government") as a "regime". And I think in much the same way you describe your countries political setup for that matter... screw the lot of them. They only care about themselves, not us.
 
Old 01-03-2020, 12:18 PM   #218
DavidMcCann
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I wonder if this thread will still be going in the run-up to the next election…
 
Old 01-03-2020, 12:36 PM   #219
hazel
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That won't happen for a long time, given that we now have a government with a healthy majority.
 
Old 01-03-2020, 01:15 PM   #220
petelq
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hazel View Post
That won't happen for a long time, given that we now have a government with a healthy majority.
That's 5 years away. I can't see the thread lasting that long, at least I hope not. However, there are some pretty strong feelings out there so you never can tell.

Last edited by petelq; 01-03-2020 at 01:16 PM.
 
  


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