The Faith & Religion mega Thread

[QUOTE=JMJ_coder;2988459]
All humans innately know that there is a God.


As an atheist, I am convinced there is not one, neither a few dozen Gods. Nothing "innately" about that.

Originally Posted by jay73 I would say that the turtles metaphor is more apt to the scientific outlook than the religious one. At least monotheistic religion defines an ultimate foundation (God) that does not need further foundation (unless one is fond of logical contradictions)

That's the problem. Religionists simply ignore the logical contradictions inherent in believing in a god.

Originally Posted by jay73 ; science, on the other hand, has to practice turtle magic: "What is the origin of scientific laws? Laws. And what could be the origin of those? More laws. And what about the ultimate law?" If you have the nerve to press for an answer, you're more than likely to receive your share of abusive rhetoric.

Science does no such thing. Science is simply a method of asking. It doesn't pretend to know anything for absolutely certain. If you ask a scientist "What are the origin of scientific laws, such as gravity, Occam's Razor, or Einstein's General Theory of Relativity?" a very likely answer is "research and observation."

Originally Posted by jay73 "reason" (a notion that is itself fraught with rhetoric because it implicitly posits that there is ony one view that could be truly rational and that, guess what, us scientists have found out that it is the scientific one...)

You're thinking of logic, which is of course a large part of reason, but not the whole of it. I'll try to address your point though.
The Logic of the scientific method implicates, based on the sum of our current knowledge, that the existence of a god (let alone more) is neither a reasonable nor a rational hypothesis.
That does not mean that "Science" says there is no god. Science is agnostic... it's waiting for all the evidence to come in before it makes a decision.

I on the other hand, have taken the evidence of Science and the evidence of reason together, and have come to the conclusion that the existence of one or more gods is incredibly improbable. So improbable that I don't waste my time believing in them.

Originally Posted by trickykid Originally Posted by JMJ_coder Prove to me that George Washington existed. ... That's really a poor choice to use in such an argument. But at least we could go dig him up to prove he existed,...

Unless of course JMJ_coder is a solipsist

I should note, if it's not obvious. I'm neither a scientist (of any field) nor a philosopher, if I'm incorrect in any of my assertions it is because of my lack of specific knowledge in a particular field. If you were to assume that my posts are made by a person whose intelligence only barely allowed him to get through high school you would be quite accurate.

can try filling gaps with neighbors ...

i think it is not good to say "i'm fine with them ... " or "i absolutely got no problem with them ... "

btw ... sometime i think all of them need to reach out more instead of being "oriental" and things like that , like they are just "playing" among themselves ... because i'm fine with people reaching out more ...

we need to look forward as mankind need to advance forward substantially more ... things wont be and shouldnt be the same like before ...

[edit ::] ok , for example the muslims ... why cant they come to me "honestly" ... its not like i go to them and ask about something that they know , a bit "demoralizing" to me i guess ... on the other hand if they do come to me and if i fail in the end ... at least i can say that i cant and i donno how(you know , the out-of-courtesy thing ) ... also kind of like a way out for me ...

so , all of them ... hell !! even the ancestor worshippers ... reach out and come forward ... especially to your athiests neighbours ...

mankind got to move forward ... at least a bit ...



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It is important to realize that science is a tool for understanding phenomena and make use of that knowledge for one's benefit. Religions themselves have some scientific explanations backing their rituals.

For example, Islam is fanatical about cleanliness and hygiene. But instead of quoting scientific reason, circumcision, wuzu etc. are declared words of God. This goes well with the masses, who do not wish to get their minds dirty with scientific explanations, but this blanket approach generally falls foul with those who prefer an explanation to an order.

The reason why religion is so successful is because of this abstraction. You just do your prayers and stuff to destress your mind, God takes care of the dirty details. Religion is an escapist approach and hence its attractiveness to people.

I'm an atheist, have been for ages. But if people can get comfort in times of distress from their religious beliefs - well, OK. As long as they don't start burning, beheading, and slaughtering those who disagree.

Originally Posted by BrianL As long as they don't start burning, beheading, and slaughtering those who disagree.

Correct! Whether or not one person prefer to believe in a god or not is his/her business and nobody else's. Christians may not be killing others for being 'non believers' anymore but it is still bad enough to have them badgering others about what they believe. I still pose this question to all those who try to convert others to their own religious beliefs. Is it really for the sake of their souls, or is it just to get as many followers as possible? "I have more mindless suckers in my religion, than in yours" As far as I'm concerned thats all it really is. They couldn't really give two shits about other people's soul.

I have come to the point that I have nothing but sheer contempt for religon, particularly christianity. I'm so fscking tired of being asked if I had been saved or not. Have I accepted Jesus in my life, BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH!!! Jesus saves. Well you know what? Jesus saves, but Buddha makes incremental backups! What do you think about that answer, @$$hole!

"Jesus saves, but Buddha makes incremental backups!" I love it!

Jeebizz, may I use your "Well you know what? Jesus saves, but Buddha makes incremental backups!" for my signatures? I'll surely put your nick after it.

Jesus Saves!
Not on my pay he couldn't.
For his trip to Disneyland.
To ~/Backups

for each christian re-enlightened , we have a lawyer converted ...

ok , seriously ...

no ... religions themselves dont need to come with scientific explanations ...

they know that that would be like they are just adding-up and piling-up while reasoning ... if nothing else ...

as if like real there are such things as being more scientific or being lesser scientific and being more objective or being lesser objective ... there are no such things ...

i also dont think they are transforming people into "no-nonsense-bolt-and-nut-from-the-ground-up" engineers and "standing-on-higher-ground-pointing-finger-flipping-clouds-and-skies" city planners ... and they are not even showing people how to lay and to extend sewage pipes properly , perpendicularly and criss-crossing only in straight lines ... can forget about reasoning what must be done above the ground ...

or ... you want them to show you all these ... ?? if that is so ... then you do what , you tell me ...

but then ... there are these something else which can be more ... or can be lesser ... can be like moving forward ... or moving backward ...

together with mankind anyway ...



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@Grife

Feel free to use it as you wish. I'm not the one who came up with it, but saw it somewhere on the internet.

really ... blaming religious men for not telling the people why cant they just be more hygenic , more well behave and more decent a bit ... as the saying down here goes --- "got my problem hah ... or you want me to sweep the floor for you ..."

ok , seriously ...

actually if the majority of people can just achieve a certain level of non-competitiveness which leads to a certain mood of not competing anymore which implies theres nothing much for them to safe-guarding like hell ... then "the rest" will follow up very quickly ...

ok , i miss the barbecue sting ray across the straits ... not sure that guy who is selling is still there or not ... and i always thinking of having biking trips along the coast , visiting some rivers owned by my younger brothers back then ... i believe nowadays there wont be any sudden surprises(like a dozen jaws jumping out) like before as its very safe now ...



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[edit ::] wrong role previously ...



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I'm a confirmed catholic, but when I die I'm dead and that's that.

-Raymond

Originally Posted by popowich I'm a confirmed catholic, but when I die I'm dead and that's that. -Raymond

You can't be 'confirmed catholic', and don't believe in repenting, redemption and absolution, and all these have direct connotation with the future of your soul, e.g. you are not 'dead' after you dead in metaphysical sense.

I always run into this. I'm buddhist and I don't feel I fit into any of the offered categories. I'm not a theist, but I'm not an atheist either, since I don't really make a point of believing that there isn't a god, or for that matter that there is one.