I have to say, picking the right distro is important. I started on Mandrake but about 6 months later I switched to Gentoo. Even though Gentoo has a installer now I wouldn't recommend that to start on.

Picking the wrong one can leave a bad taste in your mouth for Linux.

actually i'm not sure whats up with the dell/microsofts/suse/ubuntu thing ... but if someone like dell is going to preload(whats that ??) a linux and since its going to be in a somewhat cock-sure hardware "enclosure" and probably with known external peripherals too ... why not choose a bigger , more complete out of the box and a bit more "difficult" distro ... but in a sense really a complete mainstream(even smells like and looks nicer on shelves) distro ...

probably the descriptions of the "buisness side" of a distro are important for them ...



//personaly speaking for me ... its a bit weird and a waste of chances ...


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I was just thinking why don't we work out what the best bits of both sys and try to get them made into one really great system. At that point I really don't mind paying for it or having it free, in the end I just want a good stable system, something I can't get with vista at the moment (well maybe ever) I'm actually sick of the fighting between M/S versus linux. I use what sys has the right program at the time to do the job, to me it's just that simple

Ya thats right Linux is growing anyway so what we have to worry about I don't know. All big companys act like microsoft anyway.

>>"I was just thinking why don't we work out what the best bits of both sys and try to get them made into one really great system. At that point I really don't mind paying for it or having it free, in the end I just want a good stable system, something I can't get with vista at the moment (well maybe ever) I'm actually sick of the fighting between M/S versus linux. I use what sys has the right program at the time to do the job, to me it's just that simple"

you have to do it yourself or together with people closer to you(eg. direct neighbours , close colleges and close friends) if you understand the meaning of distribution of goods and work it out on them independently in relationship inter-dependantly(but not so much) to others ...

for example but not restricted to only this ... re-doing everything with the help of xdialog and xmessage ... remember that your works dont even need to go public ...


//2 cents ...

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I tend to extol the virtues of GNU/Linux to my colleagues at work and in social conversations if the topic arises. My reasons? Quite simply because it is a rock solid system, well crafted, stable, replete with great software, and more secure by design because it doesn't vacuum up spyware, script-kiddie crap, trojans and backdoors, nor does it come equipped with any number of built-in phone-home and data collection routines like XP does.
In short, I evangelise because I am using a superior system. Even at work, with a large organisation, with several hundreds of thousand pounds sterling to throw at the IT systems, the apps still hang and crash, the network falters and goes down, drives aren't available, and software is buggy and restrictive. Also, god only knows the extent of data being collected about users' work patterns! Most recently our Chief Executive bought a machine with Vista on it and couldn't read any non Vista office document. He needed a particular patch to work with Vista's lack of backwards compatability. It is no wonder then that stores are selling customers a choice of XP or Vista on new machines ... Vista is more than just a little disappointing after it has enforced hardware upgrades. This is like the tail wagging the dog: Microsoft rolls out a new (well, upgraded and patched) OS that will only work on a given set of hardware (wasn't XP like that too?), so all the MS users have to fork out the money to upgrade computers, along with office apps, and most other forms of their proprietary software packages just to stay current. Me, once I changed my sources.list back from Etch to testing, I simply type in apt-get dist-upgrade and viola! within a short space of time, my system has been upgraded to the latest software under testing, has been installed and configured, with all dependencies sorted and not a reboot in sight!

To learn Linux, I used Slackware for a number of years (from 8.1 to 10.2) and now am luxuriating in the techno-wonder of Debian testing (Lenny) after upgrading from Etch. To tell the truth, Slackware is wonderful system that gave me warm fuzzies, and I thought that I wanted to experience some of the advances that GNU/Linux had made over the years which Slackware, as a belt-and-braces system didn't offer by default. With GNU/Linux Debian, I am really enjoying the pleasures of a well crafted system that has the right balance of automagic and requiring the user to use initiative. Installing Debian was a breeze and all of the hardware was recognised out of the box and configured to work straight off, including the use of USB memory sticks and camera, and the e-mail support list is second to none in terms of willingness and ability to help out when there are queries or problems. Better than any official support and service contract!!

That's why I prefer GNU/Linux and why I evangelise about it, and considering I first got bitten round 1999/2000, I am not a new user. I don't use anything else at home, and have managed to wean my partner off of Windows as well. She now has a restricted and locked down win98se partition for a few DOS games and the occasional PC-based CD games, but for work, Net use, creation and design work, etc., she is also a Debian user (using KDE).

What does piss me off is when banks, etc., try to limit what operating system one can use by restricting access to their webservices by means of the UA string in the browser. Fortunately we have changed this in Konqueror to satisfy the site's requirements, but let's face it, that is a dumb-thing for them to do and shows a lack of foresight on their part. Their explanation? So they don't have to try and provide support to people using non-Mac or non-MS systems. Considering it is a web interface, there is very little in the way of technical support they need offer, and in any event, most Linux users are ahead of the game in terms of system knowledge than the typical IT help desk jockey who merely reads through a flow chart script of problem-solution options.

Anyway ... my $0.02 (or does the falling value of the dollar mean this is now my $0.05 ?)

actually as a newbie(probably means someone who doesnt want(or donno how) to be a developer) ... i found that if trying to "clone" linux desktop applications with xdialogs and xmessage(and maybe others too) ... i mean cloning those basic ones like cd ripping/burning , somekind of text(probably with editing) or any files and conversion , multimedia playing or any other things that you would do quite frequently which only you yourself can explain the motivations ... it doesnt matter even if your "clones" are terribly hard-coded underneath ...

can try "cloning" the gui interface(probably wont be 100% exact) first then start putting in the executing actions one by one ... i believe this can be surprising sometimes ...

but we do have to know scripting(like bash) and maybe also with some other things like a bit of awk and perl or whatever ...



//$0.02 ...


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you could just use glade or qt to make xdailogs and stuff like that

but xdialog and xmessage sound more like softwares applications themselves then programming stuffs and things like that ... which could sound more daunting for newbies who are kind of "indifferent" or "disinterested" to programming ...

but they can use glade(??) and the likes if they want more ...



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This is precicely why Linux isn't the most popular desktop O/S choice. Because the majority of non-hobyists, non-IT people dont want to have to have any knowledge about the thing that makes their computer run. They just want to use it not understand it.

Very true. Distro's becoming popular helps to some degree, ie. a common problem with ubuntu will often have an easy to find answer, but trying to cover any problem through the length and breadth of GNU/Linux... the sheer size of LQ speaks for its self.
Another thing carrying over from the MS mindset is to get the most recent version of a distro. I recently installed ubuntu feisty for a windows using friend, I'm really regretting it now. Removable media is being a pain in the neck and a lot of permissions are messed up with multiple accounts.
Debian stable and dapper exist for a reason but it is something that isn't really clear to a new user. A huge number of windows users are downgrading to XP for the same reason.
It seems to me like a lot of folks are trying linux, not liking the experience of an 'unstable' distro and going on to say "tried linux, didn't like it, it's not ready for the desktop yet". This simply isn't true anymore but the choice of distro is critical.
Cheers

thats why dont ever try saying to a computer user that he/she is using the latest or most recent version of a distro ... ^_^

they will look at you with wide-open-mouth but they will refrained from "questioning"(they are doubting themselves actually) you because you seems to be a very complicated guy ...


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That's if you can understand the person on the other end. How many of you have seen the video of the M$ tech-support call? Hi-larious! I had to save a copy so I can watch it every once in a while.

Yes, it's a sad truth. In the past 10-15 years the need to know what's inside one's computer is almost nil. I remember when my parents bought the Sound Blaster Pro II card. I still have the 100 page manual and the driver floppy and the CTCM floppy. The book explains everything from inserting the card to setting the jumpers to editing the AUTOEXEC.BAT file. And I still have printed backups (on fanfold paper) of those .BAT files. Ah, those were the days.

Now the sound card manual, if on hardcopy at all, is a 4.5" x 4.5" card that you can insert in a CD case and just says to insert the driver CD and follow the on-screen instructions. The non-IT people now have to find an IT person to insert the card for them.

I can understand that most non-tech types want everything to "just work". The problem is when something suddenly doesn't work they get upset and begin cursing the computer and wanting to punch a hole in the monitor. I know because I've lived with some and consulted with others.

i usually understand them but i come from the new england so im used to lots of different accents.

yes, but im guilty of that too. for example most people dont change their own oil in their car if they can go to the dealer and get it done for $100.
you will probably enjoy this: every os sucks by 3 dead trolls in a baggie.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...30680283477734

Thanks, schneidz, I did enjoy the video. Especially the line near the end: "Every computer crashes because every OS sucks." Funny stuff!

That was my point there. I feel that as a society we've become too dependent on others to fix and maintain our equipment, whether it's cars, computers or other machines. Microsoft hasn't helped at all. With every new version it seems the end user is less-and-less able to find the information necessary to perform simple maintenance or repairs. The interface is, IMHO, too simplified. Wizards walk you through everything so you just lean back and click Next a few times. What did you learn?

Say you're installing a printer - you've just finished the driver installation wizard and rebooted (I still don't understand why Windows has to reboot every time you install something). Now it doesn't print. What do you do:

a. turn the printer off and back on and try again
b. remove the driver, disconnect the printer, then reinstall the driver
c. call tech support

You could try a , but b is a more common problem. The documentation has become so poor and wizards go by so fast that a lot of folks will start the wizard with the printer already connected. WRONG! Most printers now will prompt the user when to connect it. I've seen some printers that, after a botched install, would _never_ install properly. The botched install leaves something behind, probably in the registry, that confuses the installer. The average user would have already gotten upset and started packing the printer to be returned.