The All New Linux vs Windows MegaSuperThread

dracolich · 08-19-2008, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jay129
I'm hoping to eventually boot to win only for the few games I play. I don't hate windows though. I haven't had a crash in Win since like win95.

Very impressive! The only Windows installation I've used that rarely crashes is the Win2k I have now (that I don't use much). I assume it's largely due to the combination of Firefox, ZoneAlarm, AVG, Spybot's TeaTimer, no gadgets and themes and screensavers from untrusted sources, and safe browsing habits.

Quote:

Originally posted by {BBI}Nexus{BBI}
Installing Winblows today still feels like installing Micro$oft Office on a 486 machine from 25 floppies!!!

Haha! I actually have the floppy disk set for Office97 - ~50 disks. That bloat and builtin spyware takes time to install doesn't it?

It may not be true anymore, but the number of reboots during the installation might feel the same as the number of disk swappings.

Quote:

Originally posted by stan.distortion
Damn thread isn't sending me notifications now?!? Ok, I've probably messed with the config somewhere and screwed things up, wouldn't be the first time

I still get them, but not until after 5 or 6 new posts.

ussr_1991 · 08-20-2008, 05:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stan.distortion

Damn thread isn't sending me notifications now?!? Ok, I've probably messed with the config somewhere and screwed things up, wouldn't be the first time

@geneven. Man, I remember that discussion from the last time I was following this thread. Has it really been 2 years? $**t time flies. And I remember the points you made were all valid and justified, not 'loonix sux, youz iz all loozerz' type stuff at all. No need to go and sulk for 2 years just because someone calls you a troll

Have you had a look at espeak? Sounds like someone taught a cat to speak to me but there are plenty of options for fine tuning and a lot of folks give good reports.

@ussr_1991. IMHO the interweb is very selfish when it expects the whole world to speak english, and I respect that you are a human and that english isn't your native language but you really do come out with some crap sometimes (linux vulnerabilities at hardware level springs to mind).
Yes, freedom of choice is a great and very important thing but if the app your looking for isn't there then you can't choose it can you?
You may not be aware of it but all the tools you could ever need ARE there and free for the taking, trouble is they are a mixed bag of libraries and command line apps. Learn to use them and you'll laugh at the feebleness of commercial apps, but thats a lot of learning.
Another option is learn to code (it really isn't that hard to learn a few coding skills) and you can blend these existing tools together into the video editing application of your dreams. THAT is the point you seem to be missing, you are free to do that. No licensing complexities, royalties or locked away source code, but it doesn't get done all by its self. Someone has to do the work so you or I can have each and every bit of open source software on a typical linux system, and very very few of them get a single cent for that work.
If the tools you want are on MS or mac then go ahead and use them, I wont criticize you for it and I doubt anyone else here will either, but if you want the application of your dreams then your going to have to learn what all this source stuff is about.
cheers

EDIT OMG, the line dancing....the horror. No wonder I forgot to mention it, that section of my brain has corterized it's self in self defense. See what happens when geeks leave the keyboard? The fresh air rushes to the brain and then we get this kind of thing....

Ok, I have noted that. Learn to code? I am a beginner in Java (Not C, C# etc, no experience on that. And java programming stays on Command-line interface, so I wont hate that. But seriously, for it to get worked on CLI, regardless Win,Mac or Unix, I still cannot get it operated, other than using IDE like jGrasp.)

Learn to use the existing commands? No one have yet to teach me that. (I should learn these by myself, like how I did before famaility with GUI and be an experienced users in Windows etc, but this requires some risk and time, which have already spent too much during learning GUI.)

rocket357 · 08-20-2008, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ussr_1991

I am a beginner in Java

Java is such a horrible first language...you really shouldn't straddle the fence while learning: go one side and learn C/C++, or go to the other side and learn Python or Ruby.

schneidz · 08-20-2008, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rocket357

Java is such a horrible first language...you really shouldn't straddle the fence while learning: go one side and learn C/C++, or go to the other side and learn Python or Ruby.

what is the divider (fence) ? are you talking about being type-literal based vs. being fully object-oreiented ?

inst c++ mostly objects ?

rocket357 · 08-20-2008, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schneidz

what is the divider (fence) ? are you talking about being type-literal based vs. being fully object-oreiented ?

inst c++ mostly objects ?

Code:

Disclaimer:  I've been coding for 22 years now.  
I've done my fair share of C/C++, Java, Python, Perl, PHP, C#, etc...  
I'm not saying Java is a "bad" language here, I'm simply pointing 
out shortcomings in Java in teaching fundamentals.

I'm talking about the fact that Java requires you to understand tons of concepts before you "get it", but hides important concepts (pointers, etc...) from you. Either focus on what's really going on "behind the scenes" (asm/C/C++), or use Python/Ruby to learn "big picture" concepts before moving on to "behind the scenes".

Maybe I'm wrapped up in a "top-down" vs. "bottom-up" approach, but Java seems to be middle ground to me...which is fine for programmers who've gotten the "behind the scenes" and "big picture" concepts, but it's horrible for first timers who are still learning basic concepts.

schneidz · 08-20-2008, 11:49 AM

maybe that's why i dont like java so much.
eventhough i had c, c++, assembly + machine-code semesters earlier.

i find it slower but maybe things change since the 5 years when i had it (mite be an artifact of needing an emulation layer).

thanks,

rocket357 · 08-20-2008, 12:05 PM

I'm currently employed as a BI developer using the BusinessObjects suite, and I'm a FOSS fanatic, so given a choice of Java or C# API's, you can imagine which one I tend to use.

Again, I'm not bashing Java...it's a decent language, but it is by far slower to code in than Python or Ruby and it masks some important concepts that go a long ways towards understanding how code really works. I don't hate Java, I just don't advocate it's use as a teaching tool.

AceofSpades19 · 08-20-2008, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rocket357

I'm currently employed as a BI developer using the BusinessObjects suite, and I'm a FOSS fanatic, so given a choice of Java or C# API's, you can imagine which one I tend to use.

Again, I'm not bashing Java...it's a decent language, but it is by far slower to code in than Python or Ruby and it masks some important concepts that go a long ways towards understanding how code really works. I don't hate Java, I just don't advocate it's use as a teaching tool.

and guess what they teach at my highschool, JAVA!, 95% of the text book is teaching concepts and the other 5% is coding

schneidz · 08-20-2008, 12:20 PM

by and by, whats a bi developer ?

fyi, right now i am in software-qa (mostly mainframe mvs and aix) but in my prior life i was a linux sys admin for an electrical engineering company that made test equipment for utility companies.

rocket357 · 08-20-2008, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schneidz

by and by, whats a bi developer ?

Business Intelligence...I do a lot of data warehousing from production databases and a lot of "pampering" data to make it user-friendly haha. Most of the time if I'm interacting directly with the BusinessObjects server, I'm coding in Java...but the rest of the time I kinda jump around between Python, PHP, C++, etc...whatever fits the bill at that moment, ya know? (I'm lucky to work for a boss who values the right tool over a strict "we're a Java shop" mentality)

Quote:

Originally Posted by AceofSpades19

and guess what they teach at my highschool, JAVA!, 95% of the text book is teaching concepts and the other 5% is coding

That's what I'm talking about...Java is advanced enough to require a ton of "studying concepts", but it hides critical concepts that *really* teach how things work. It wasn't designed for students, it was designed for business deployment. For learning, C/C++ would teach what Java misses, and Python or Ruby would be perfect as an introduction (high level/big picture concepts).

My first college course in programming was Fortran (I'd already been programming 8-10 years when I got to college)...and the school couldn't afford enough computers at the time, so we had to handwrite the code and turn it in for grade...hahaha.

schneidz · 08-20-2008, 12:34 PM

massaging data to an acceptable format is a useful trait.

i wish i knew jcl because mainframe is very pinicky about the format and record length of datasets. my quick-and-dirty solution is to ftp it down to the aix machine, run a c-program/bash script, then ftp the output back to mainframe.

that puts me in a position where i create automated scripts to save time and energy wasted on mind-numbing data entry for my internal team (but not for the enterprise as a whole -- at least not yet).

im actually wasting my time now on lq waiting for my program to extract data from a 1.5 million record dataset...

rocket357 · 08-20-2008, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schneidz

massaging data to an acceptable format is a useful trait.

If I were massaging data, it'd be one thing...but most of the time I'm following foreign keys and putting "human readable" data in place of service codes and the like...I like to think of it as "pampering", because the worst that would happen if it fails is the user will have to find service providers by id instead of name. Not quite so severe as trying to enter data in the wrong format.

Quote:

Originally Posted by schneidz

im actually wasting my time now on lq waiting for my program to extract data from a 1.5 million record dataset...

My warehouse rebuild (test machine) just finished, so I guess it's back to work for me heh.

ErV · 08-20-2008, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schneidz

inst c++ mostly objects ?

No. It is what you want it to be. You can work in C-style (with low-level functions, without using classes, even avoiding new/delete operators, and using malloc in old way), you can work in OOP-style (with a tons of objects, (multiple) inheritance, virtual functions, etc), or you can simply develop algorithms which will operate on nearly any type of data (templates). C++ is very flexible, it is really what you want it to be. But it's power and number of possibilities most likely will be overwhelming for a newbie. I won't recommend which language someone should learn first, this depends on personality, goal and motivation.

schneidz · 08-20-2008, 07:04 PM

so i guess java is totally oop ?

correct ?

ErV · 08-20-2008, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schneidz

so i guess java is totally oop ?

correct ?

I'm not java pro (minimal experience with java), but as far as I know, yes, it is totally oop. Except certain very basic types everything is object. Even to write "hello world" you have to declare class (with method "main()").