Isn't it interesting that the word "interesting" has such a wide variety of connotations? IIRC there is a Chinese curse that states "May you live in interesting times". Perhaps how "interesting" (often considered the opposite of both "safe" and "boring") is perceived or translated depends on whether or not one is, or thinks they are, a "risk taker" or not. It is also extremely powerfully affected by the effects of Religion or the lack of it, which determines how one views Life as a either a high scrutiny "Permanent Record" Test where the stakes are absolutely Infinite and Irrevocable or as a gift of an adventure of nearly Infinite possibility.

In this "game of card" we can't do a lot to change "the hand we were dealt" but it can be fascinating to play any hand. It is possible to win a round of Poker with what is considered a "bust hand". Don't fold until there is zero options.

Best wishes for you and yours Lysander666. You seem an interested and interesting person.

2018 was "interesting" for me. My mom died in the first part of the year. In the second part of the year, my nephew and his wife gave birth to a son, which made me a "Great-Uncle" for the first time.

Not every day is great for me, some worse than others. Somebody hit my "new" truck on the parking lot, broke the tail light and took off the 1st of Jan. Fixed it myself for $21.95 courtesy of Amazon. I have problems just like everybody else but I don't suffer from depression and am not on any meds. There is no stigma to it, the only shame in not getting help when you need it if it's available.

If I did suffer from depression it would have to be very severe for me to even consider taking any medications for it. I'm somewhat susceptible to side effects to begin with and after working in the mental health field have seen enough people who suffer greatly from medication side effects that I'd settle for depression. I don't believe in going to the doctor unless at deaths door or injured beyond my ability to deal with it.

There's a difference in SSRI's and anti-psychotics like my clients took but Tardive Dyskinesia left a lasting memory of how horrible life could be in comparison to being depressed, not to lessen what some people go through. My old doctor gave me a script for an SSRI once, I don't remember what it was or what I said for him to think it appropriate. I never filled it and eventually fired him for illogical behavior on his part.

(Yes, doctors are only humans and no better than anyone here. It's just a job they went to school to learn and they can be fired. Not Divine Powers bestowed on but a few from On High. But I rant...)

If my tongue protruded from my mouth uncontrollable all day from morning till night I would be depressed. It's a fate worse than death IMO. Not many side effects would be that pronounced and everyone has to make their own decisions according to their situation.

I don't intend on dying soon, sorry to disappoint, but am ready anytime God is and not going before then.

This is a common and fascinating consideration that demonstrates our point of view and evaluation. Is a "great day" one that makes you smile all day and is one where we struggle all day actually "worse"? I wonder at the somewhat comical but also revealing note that "Most people want to go to Heaven but almost nobody wants to die" which is of course a main component of "the entry fee".

Lately I've been enjoying YouTube recordings of Joe Rogan's podcasts and he often talks about the huge difference in the way he came up than his children and it is a very common phenomenon. Joe came up hard! He struggled, nearly starving, for many years but ultimately he never gave up. Now when he reflects on his success he is proud that his children have very comfortable lives but at the same time he notes how soft and lackadaisical they are and by contrast that everyone he finds interesting, respectable and driven have horror stories to tell. Struggle is what makes us strong so why don't we revere it? Comfort and convenience makes us weak so why don't we avoid it?

I doubt anyone can provide a solid answer for such questions but it seems to me that at the very least we should be very careful about what we conclude is "great" and "worse". This is exactly why "interesting" is both a blessing and a curse. Maybe don't be too quick to judge your days and it's likely wise to never wallow for long in despair, no matter what is happening in your life. It will very likely change so stick around to see how it all plays out. The only alternative is at best a crap shoot of far greater unknowns than living on planet Earth.

The link didn't work for me (msg: temporarily unavailable). Here's a different one: Tardive Dyskinesia on Wikipedia

For those who haven't heard of it before, TD can be caused by different types of medication, and is not just a side effect but can become a permanent condition.

The anti-psychotic my clients were on was Haldol. It is considered a side effect but is permanent. Russia uses it as a deterrent to drug use, here they describe it as treatment:

You better call everybody you got because it would take everybody to get me down and inject me with it. Every time.


I was Home Manager of a group home for Behaviorally Involved Developmentally Disabled Individuals. Moderately retarded individuals with behavior problems so severe it prevented them from living in the last home environment they were placed and deemed no longer appropriate for that setting. Those individuals were sent to my Group Home as the last stop before a state institution if they couldn't make it in mine. When nobody else could manage them they sent them to me.

Oddly enough, that institution is where I got my start in the field and training in Behavior Modification and Behavior Management. I had met several of the people who were my clients in that same institution as children and known them most of their lives. I never lost one of my clients to the state.

Wow! That's a potent story Trihexagonal and not only are you absolutely right that psychotropic drugs are extremely powerful and very serious and shouldn't be allowed without understanding and consent (with the debatable caveat regarding harm to others and/or self) but you deserve massive kudos for helping so many people. Ten up top, Bro!

DEATH is such a scary thing that nobody who thinks suicide is the coward's way out has never actually thought about committing suicide

it tacks a brave person to over come the fear of death and kill them selves

may be this is why suicide is so common among ex military
a large part of military training is aimed at over coming the fear of death

I disagree with all of this but especially the idea that it takes bravery to kill yourself. That might be true if you desperately want to live while doing it but then why not just go ahead and be brave enough to live through whatever is pushing you over the edge? So that's nearly a contradiction in terms right there. First off I am not afraid of death. I want to live as long as I can as healthy as I can but I'm not going to hasten what is inevitable... been there, almost done that.

There was a time nearly 50 years ago when I was in a state of despair over a divorce and I sat with a .22 rifle in my mouth trying to figure out how to reach the trigger with a toe small enough to fit through the trigger guard since my hand would not effectively reach it. That was a case of really good luck because it gave me a split second to play it out, that my brother would be the one to find the horrific scene I'd be leaving which would be bad enough then he'd be the one to have to call my parents and other siblings. It really pissed me off I couldn't do it but there was no way once I thought it through that I could have my last act on Earth be one so cruel to those I loved most. I walked around like a zombie for months angry as Hell. Then things started to get calmer...then better... and the rest is 50 years of History with a Son who now has graced my life himself as well as with a grand-daughter, and I have LIVED pretty large since then.

No... suicide isn't brave. It's irrationally selfish. What would've been brave was talking to someone and I did that with my brother but only days after the incident but I chickened out even further by insisting he keep it secret. The horror and deep sadness in his eyes told me my choice to go on living was right, being a mere, pale shadow of how I would've scarred his psyche forever. The talking turned out to be part of what would become part of the healing since it took suicide off the table forever, and suddenly I realize any time I had left was "frosting on the cake". I had already faced real death and walked away alive so there was nothing to fear ever again. I did take risk to some extremes for a time but even that settled out and I began to feel still unafraid, but rational, and whole again. Every day above ground is a good day.

@enorbet
other than your near suicide
have you ever faced death have you ever been in a situation where dying was a real and immanent possibility

putting myself in these situations was my favorite pass time when I was a teen
yes I came close to dying several times
the thrill came from surviving
( it was better than sex )

so I well know how terrifying death is

death is the second most terrifying thing thing I can think of
( becoming an unwilling toy for sadists is the most terrifying thing I can think of right NOW that is a a real and immanent possibility )

Yes, rob.rice, even before my one bout with suicide I was a risk taker. I raced cars and motorcycles and constructed real rockets of up to 4 foot lengths of 1.5" diameter stainless steel in my parent's basement and "cooked" the fuel in our kitchen oven when I was home alone, and those are the relatively sane things I engaged in. Others were of dubious legality but some seemed rational but were ill-advised like hiking or snowshoeing alone miles from any help in the Rocky Mountains regardless of season or weather conditions with nothing but a bow or a rifle as provisions. It briefly got more radical after the suicide event but as I said I leveled out though that merely reduced risk taking to somewhat more moderate kinds. I've been close to death many times... sometimes it was moderate and actually thrilling but others were startling when suddenly that moment hits you "Oh damn. This could be IT!" With the exception of extremely fleeting instants, like when speeding over icy mountain roads on a motorcycle and you feel suddenly the wheels slip out from under you, I felt what I would call fear but only for a fraction of a second. I actually don't "know how terrifying death is" and I am not at all convinced that's necessarily a good thing. It just is what it is, probably for better and for worse.

If I understand your last sentence correctly the only experience I can draw on as a parallel is that "looking in your mirror and seeing a police car" event where you possibly face long term loss of control. That is far more fearful to me than pain or merely dying. I want to live but I'm not afraid of dying. I've thought about it and I realize that some kinds of dying could well involve my body freaking out but I also think that will pass if there is sufficient time to accept and just let go.

you almost understand my last line
I am fighting the white slave trade over ownership of my self
(think pimps and prostitutes)
from what I have seen with my own eyes the white slave trade is nothing but a play ground for sadists
BACK ON TOPIC
the people I have seen treated by the mental health profession have in one way or another been made worse from there treatment
my brother on his meds he has deep anger issues such that nobody can stand to put up with hem with out them normal
my sister emotionally unstable crying or pissed off nothing in between on her meds OK off her meds
I have seen what electroshock dose to people
to me the mental health profession is a scam voodoo witch doctors
doing more harm than good in it for the money and nothing else

That's pretty shocking rob.rice and my heart and best wishes go out to you. I sincerely hope you are greatly successful in freeing yourself from any such bondage, internal and external. That said, I disagree that 100% of meds make matters worse for 100% of people on them. I personally know 2 people who were murdered by a schizophrenic family member who had gone off their meds. Now those offenders are in effect incarcerated forever so that turned out very badly for everyone. It seems that it is rather common that people with any kind of emotional problems see it as a goal to get off meds because that kind of implies "I'm OK now. I'm healed" and that is more often than not a conclusion made by someone so emotionally invested that the bias is overwhelming, but wrong.

I know I don't understand this well at all. For example one of the people murdered was a mother (a high school friend of mine) who had taken in her adult Son providing him with food, shelter and care. How any Son could assume his Mother who had done all that was some kind of threat I just can't even imagine. However I do understand that a person with such a distorted sense of reality, capable of such illogical, counterproductive conclusions and then take horrific, irretrievable action on those urges, is also incapable of judging their own condition. It's a very serious problem with no easy solution. It isn't apparently as easy as teaching people don't harm yourself and don't harm anyone else and short of that do what you can to be happy, free, and productive. Beyond that simplistic advice, I have no answers.

I saw a TV commercial for this site about Tardive Dyskenesia today:

They have various information and suggest techniques to manage it yourself.

@rob.rice: You are not alone. The poll needs an option for <1. Here, maybe this will help move the dicussion forward:

https://beyondmeds.com/2019/01/03/american-psych-ward/

Not something that is easy to discuss online, but nobody ever said friendship was easy. Please stay safe, community.