I had the same feelings about RPM's then I started doing the command from the command line. I have gotten good at finding the dependencies with a quick google tool-bar search then downloading, then *Uvh...The biggest problem that I had to come to terms with is that sometimes you have to install the needed RPM independently..but I do agree about the pain when you need to install more and more and more RPM's.. I am working currently on installing a piece of software and I have been messing with download RPM's over the last week. Just because I get tired of messing with it. And my favorite gripe about RPM ..is when it tells you that blankblank1.0.3 RPM is needed and you find blankbland1.0.5. Then you install blankblank1.0.5 then go back to first program and it still tells you that you need blankblank1.0.3!! Now what is up with that!!@!

mmm... I love RPM's. It's great. A system where u can have all your installed thingies organized.
Dependencies... well, I disagree, finding RPM packages is really easy, and most of them can be found with a quite fast look trought www.rpmfind.net or www.rpmseek.org
Sometimes, when it sais that it still needs whatever1.x when u have already installed whatever1.x can be easyly solved yust by doing: rpm -i --nodeps whatIwanted2install.rpm
Usually this works. As well, many times works without having installed whatever.1.x if it's needed just for a expecial feature or something like that. For exaple, I used to have problems with GLcore.so (or something like that, i cant remeber well). It was because GLcore.so was neede by nVidia graphical adaptors and I have an ATI so, even having installed GL i got that crappy error. All solved with --nodeps.

Let me add to that , bigjohn --
After slogging through countless threads & forums for whatever reason or problem I may be having at the time, more often than not, a replier's comments include, "RTFM".
In my opinion, a significant percentage of the "newbie" cries for help on all these forums could quite possibly be eliminated if the documentation was written be someone who could WRITE. For the most part, open source documentation tends to be something less than the sum of its parts.
Not to mention the Evil Zen Master mindset amongst some thread repliers ("What is the sound of one Tar Balling?" -- OK, that one was a bit of a reach --).
There are few things more frustrating than to FINALLY get a reply to a plea for help, only to find that the reply advises to :
man <whatever command>.

To analogise: I already know how to make sandwiches. So, now I'm ready to take my mad meal-making skills to the next level -- I'm going to try to bake my own bread. So, I find a document titled HOWTO Bake bread, and immediately set to reading it.
But, instead of telling me how to bake bread, I learn all I want to know about the DNA structure of Yeast, how plant cellulose responds to heat,
the best time to plant wheat, and an efficiency comparison of various fuels (for the oven, I'd guess -- but a search for the string "oven" in the document finds nothing.)
I still don't know how to bake a loaf of bread.

There's also al lot of chicken/egg or cart/horse confusion in much of the documentation. Like picking up a "HOWTO Learn German" book, finding the contents in Greek, the Greek HOWTO is in Russian, the Russian HOWTO is in German, and the reference you FINALLY find, in English, refers you to "HOWTO Learn German" .

If I want or need to know what frannistanatic refragulation protocol stack is, PLEASE don't tell me that it's a stack of refragulating frannistans. (There's that evil Zen Master. Again)


I could go on, but that's enough.

Redhat Package Manager


Cheers,
Tink

Easier or not, with a GUI or whatever, the best way to learn linux, I'm learning, is with the CLI. While I am no where near the level of doing an LFS (my level, also, is more on the "what does RPM stand for", by the way thanks Tinktser), I'm finding so much information and have been able to do so much more with my own distro by reading the documention the LFS site refers you to.

I still think it is good that some distros are making it or trying to make their version dumbified. I know people who have wonderful skills and talents in many areas and have no interest in computers, yet must use them. I'd like those kinds of people, if they decided, for whatever reason, that M$ was not for them, to be able to have a choice, with something they would like and have to spend as little time with as possible. Thus, I still don't see what the problem is here.

"Make Linux easier": some distros will make it easier for those who don't like to "tinker" ---and I'm sure that's a good thing; some distros will make it easier for those who do like to play around with their system. There are multiple distros out there each following their own philosophy. As far as I see it, as long as this remains the same, then linux will eventually be able to appeal to all kinds: from the, just surf the web, organize my photos, instant message user to the power user.

four entries X 2 cents = well, there's my eight cents now.

thanks tinkster

How about you people give Lindows a try. I am pretty new to linux my self but the Lindows version of linux is really simple, I use both red hat and Lindows. It's on Lindows.com give it a try. You can even use all windows base application in the Lindows with a special utility and it even has ClinkNRun utilitity which is very easy to use and it work by you simple click on a software from the net and it downloads and install it by it self. Just give it a try please. It's only 49.99 and you get download it directly from the website.

Lindows is shite. People should not be encouraged to use it... If Lindows gains public support (which it wont, thank heavens) we will see a massive rise in Linux viri and tojans: You have to use the OS as root.

What kind of crap OS makes you do that?!?!? Oh yeah.... windows....

there is a way to change that log in as root, and beside, what are you afraid of trojan and virus for? You sound like you don't want linux to become popular? I fell if, and only if, you ever want the average citizen to use a specific software you got to make it idiot prove outwise it will not go nowhere. Yes, Lindows is a newbi system, but for the new linux users is perfect tool to make a smooth transition from windows to linux. Who give a damn if mass virus appaire, that's kinda like saying "I don't want to become famouse because I am afraid people are gone boder me all the time" It's part of the package man. I am sorry, you have to give me more than that lame exuse to make your case against Lindows. I just don't see why not?

Sorry Tink, RPM has not stood for Redhat Package Manager since before release 6.2 .
What with so many other distros using RPM, the project was spun off from Redhat and the name was changed to reflect the distro neutral status. RPM was retroactively made into a recursive acronym... like we needed another one of those... now it's the "RPM Package Manager."

Best Regards
briber

Post of the month!

I had a simple vision.
To learn Linux. To see if it could truly be an alternative to the Microsoft OSs.
My task was to see if I could do MP3 analysis, to get real world numbers on a variety of criteria, ie...bitrate, encoder settings, flac, even the ripping software and the CDROM used to rip.
I have downloaded at least 15 different audio programs that looked somewhat useful for my purposes.

I have been able to get 3 to work. And even 2 of those did not work until I hacked them to work.
Audacity - had to copy some library from it's normal location into the Audacity directory. Is not accurate enough.
Sweep - this actually installed correctly. Not accurate enough. Just a toy.
Bewdy/Maaate - works, I think I get the numbers I am looking for. Very complicated but it's the only thing I have got to run that looks promising. Gives me an error that it can't find a library but still runs. No documentation on what this library does (Normal Linux Procedure)

Protux - depends on libmustux will not install, mousejogboard error thing. Googled and no answer.
Ardour - compiles forever receive error after an hour.
The list goes on and on with error after error after error.
App that requires version xxx of some library screws up other program that actually was working with older version of same library.
There is no consistency between libraries, other Linux flavors, and apps. I want to be able to use my computer to do other things that run just one app.
To me Linux might as well be Windows 3.1
I don't care if the apps are free. If I can't get them to run they are of no use anyway. I have googled and forumed for weeks trying to get any of these to run. I have neither the time nor the patience anymore to get the simplest of apps to run. I have come to the conclusion that Linux is useless as a desktop gui platform. As a server platform only, I believe it can be considered a viable alternative.
I just want to buy a car and drive it. Not go to a junkyard and build a car out of free parts from a variety of other cars.
I know I know, What do I expect for free?
I expect 10% of anything to work and that's what I get.

Sorry if I have offended anyone but it's been another day of spending all day figuring out one error only to find the next one.

I see your using Redhat. The problems you described is the reason I dropped Redhat. It is like using win3.1 although more reliable but very hard to use and setup. Just to make shur I loaded audiocity and had it installed and running in less than 3 min.

I don't disagree with a lot of what you say at all. So don't take this as trying to cancel your post, but just add to it - a lot 'man <whatever command>' could quite possibly be eliminated if the people asking the questions at least indicated they had *read* the manual. Then it would be redundant to tell them to RTFM. I try to do that in every case. Even better is if they said, "I was reading the man page and it said 'x' - now what does that mean? I don't understand." I don't do that as much because a lot of time I don't understand much of *any* of the man page. *g* But that's an ideal situation because you can get specific help to fill in the blanks and really learn stuff. And, gradually, you'll come to find that many man pages actually are well written - it's just a style you have to get adjusted to - and using a background of knowledge you have to slowly acquire. Unlike some documentation, they just keep getting *more* valuable.

But, yeah, some of it outright sucks.

Anyway - I'd just say that so many people don't do the most basic things like reading the README and INSTALL before installing or reading the man page after, or searching the web or at least looking at their own apps' or distros' websites. So a lot of the frustration could be cut down both ways.

flame/troll/stupid bait = this post

please please please please i beg you, lock/close this thread... it's horrible