[classic newbie starts crying]
I hate Linux, it's too hard. I've downloaded "MSN" from "microsoft", then I opened Konqueror and "double-clicked" on it but it did not work. Same goes to "Winamp". That just sucks, why to build an OS that you can run nothing on it. What should I do? I really need MSN, all my friends use it.

I also could not get my "on-board" sound card to work. My PCI modem did not work as well, but my daddy had an extra modem that worked. I had to search google all day to get my modem to work, but google is too hard. Luckily I had a friend who helped me to install it. If I did not have another modem, I'd have to buy a new modem for Linux? Why? My PCI modem is perfectly "good".

Sorry, but I'm going back to WinME
[/ classic newbie sums up]

I'm afraid I must agree with Paul and yes i'm a newbie.

I have toyed with the idea of moving over to Linux for many years but am not into the sitting typing and sorting out what should be a simple task as it probably is for many Linux users. I hate Windows which I am currently using but am forced to stay with it as in the past i have tried to get my head round the Linux system and whilst I am happy that Linux has the gui interface When it comes to installing software it goes up the wall for me. Now I don't mind sitting and learning the finer points of Linux but want to atleast have a fully running system befor having to sort out things like getting onto the internet or opening a program on a CD because it dosn't recognise or run exe files. I am presently seriously considering installing SuSe Linux but hope I aint going to be wasting my time.

By the way I think it's a little harsh to say that people are whiners and don't want to think.

After working doing two jobs evenings & nights I want to enjoy my computer experience whithout the hastle of the run around which is why Windows although pritty crap compared to Linux is still being sold to the public. and the only reason people are programed to use Windows is that
1. It is provided with most systems
2. It is so user freindly most of the time.
3. There has been no real effort by Linux to sort the monopoly of Windows.

So please be more understanding.

I do, understand and I agree with you bograt!

Though, I did the above thread more like a joke. A little secret though... the guy who opened Konqueror and double-click on Winamp... was actually me

I assumed it was and have no problem with that, yet surely you can understand how frustrating it can be when all you want is a Os that runs better than Windows ( Spit Spit ) but are caught between a rock and a hard place. I want to move over to Linux but cauld do without the crap as a newbie. Imagin if Windows was difficult to get your head round there would be less computers round.

"By the way I think it's a little harsh to say that people are whiners and don't want to think."

Not necessarily. People need to think. It's good for you. Just like exersize is good for you if you are a lazy slob who sits on his butt all day. Windows almost requires stupidity and it's sucking people down to the lowest levels. That's why they get every virus in the world. They are clueless and windows took them there. The basic user level of linux requires not much thought either, mind you, but at least it has other levels available for when people decide to come out of the coma.

But windows is not user friendly. It's user stupid. It does what it wants and you lose all real control. Its a car that only does left turns. You have to go around the block to get where you need to go.

As for moving people over to linux. Linux people don't care. Stick with windows if you want. If you came to linux and wants some help, we'll try and help. If you start whining that it's too hard or that windows is so much better, then we'll tell you to go home to mommy.

WE don't really care. WE are already there.

This is because you are stuck in the rut of windows land. Get a kid, any kid, and stick them in front of either box. They don't care. They will use whatever they wish. I dual booted PC's here and gave the kids (all 4) whatever choice they wanted without any pressure to use either OS. And while games continue to be played in windows at times, the serious work, and a lot of play, has gone to linux. They managed to get their heads around it without even thinking about it.

Use linux for a while and very quickly you will find that it's windows that is impossible to fathom...

I think thats realy unfair it's only user stupid because everything is done for you I have worked on computers for quite a few years and have had to sort out softwear problems on many occassions which can be a pain. So i'm not lazy and am not whinning you say stay with Windows I don't want to stay with windows I want to move over to Linux as I know its far better than Windows. And I want to learn Linux.

You say if I or any other person wants help you'll try and help I have asked in another thread Linspire or SuSe Linux ie which is best why its best and all I got was Suse Linspires a horrible OS and thats it No explination as to why. I know I will have problems with my modem and have been running round all the sites to find what I need to do to sort this so I aint being lazy but feel it could be made a little easier for the newbies like me. I teach martial arts and I get new students all the time, now I don't try to teach them intraquit moves but keep it simple so they can learn and I encourage them to learn thats all I want I don't want to be insulted because I have difficulty getting my head round Linux it aint rocket sience nor is martial arts but we all need guidance.

Saying that windows brings on user stupidity is no reflection on the user. The user is generally a normal intelligent person such as yourself. But windows has created the stupid computer user by the way it works. These stupid computer users could not survive in the old DOS or even win3.11 world. Simple fact. It's no reflection on you.

As for help. I do try. I write thousands of posts on pages like this. Just do a search for Tim Fairchild and you'll get a few... But we have lives too, sorry to say, and we get real frustrated when people can't seem to see the obvious from our point of view...

As for the comments on linspire... well it just is crap. There's not a lot else you can say. It tries to be too windows-like and defaults to a root user which destroys the basics of linux security. It's not a good distribution, and that's about it. There are others, like the slightly user stupid mandrake, which I use, or the harder ones like slack or debian. Take your pick.

And you can click on the apps like IE or winamp or whatever - just make sure you install codeweavers crossover first

No offence taken and know exactly what you meen I have used Dos many times in the past and wasnt to happy when they replaced it with the CMD in XP I am presently downloading SuSe Linux 9 whats this like? and are the drivers eciadsl-usermode-0.9 the right ones to install to run the voyager 100 DSL modem? and is it true that Wine programe enables you to open exe files? Thanks for any help, it is realy appreciated as long as I can set up Linux to access thew internet I can learn whilst I pick peoples brains thanks.

My first real use of Linux is SuSE 9.1 I did once boot Knoppex from CD but that is about it. SuSE 9.1 is great. I am still using XP and have a LAN to my boot camp SuSE box.

I have managed to do a lot so far without the use of the terminal. I want to see how far I can use SuSE just by using the GUI. For those who have used Linux in the past or want to try I recommend giving SuSE a go.

All the negative comments about Windows users are arrogant nonsense. Windows is better than Linux in a number of important areas which all revolve around user friendliness. If however you ask about preference and security then Linux is better.

The important point to remember is that Linux is constantly moving to being more user friendly and more standardised with the add/remove function of software. Windows however will only continue to be more secret and bloat, only running on high end boxes.

The Linux community have a few years to play catch up before Longhorn is released. A lot can happen in two years. If the user friendliness issue were all but resolved, then Longhorn would be cheap to buy in the stores, very very cheap.

There is really no need to bad mouth windows users. It is disrepectful of people you have never met and have no idea of their circumstances.

I've never used Suse, but it seems to get good reports. It's a 'real' linux distro with all the working parts and security and such...

As for WINE and win apps... WINE can be a pain, but there are 'user friendly' wine versions which are quite cheap to buy. I use codeweavers crossover here to run things on the kids machines like MS Office or photoshop or any little win app I might need. IE works as well. There is also transgaming winex (cedega) which runs a wide selection of windows games like CS or HL or JKII etc...

As for the internet, have to get other help there. I use a p166 running smoothwall on dialup...

"All the negative comments about Windows users are arrogant nonsense. Windows is better than Linux in a number of important areas which all revolve around user friendliness. If however you ask about preference and security then Linux is better. "

I disagree and see this as a point of view thing. I find the exact opposite. When I have to deal with a windows machine I really do feel like it's driving a car that will only turn left. Every time I need to turn right, the OS won't let me and I have to drive up to the next street and take a few extra left turns down some very odd back streets... For me linux is better than windows in a number of key areas, and when more people realise this, MS will be in trouble. So will linux, of course, as these forums will get clogged

"The Linux community have a few years to play catch up before Longhorn is released. A lot can happen in two years. If the user friendliness issue were all but resolved, then Longhorn would be cheap to buy in the stores, very very cheap."

MS won't be able to sell it too cheap. They will need the revenue by then. They usually put an OS out every 2-3 years, and this long break will hurt. I'd suggest they would put out a XP-2005, but I think they are having enough trouble getting people to go to XP as it is.

I've been working with linux for over a year now (I think). My first linux distro was Ark Linux (one disk). After that I purchased RedHat 9 (the last consumer version). I found some things difficult to use (getting my flash drive to work in RH9 led to the ruin of one drive, before switching to SUSE), and then the fact that I have never gotten a video card to work with linux is the only reason I have not made the switch. I am in the CIS program at my Comm. College, and just recently took a UNIX class. I knew quite a few things that were covered by then, but the class helped me out a good deal also. A lot of the solutions for getting a linux machine to run for the average end user (internet, games, peripherals, etc.) require some knowledge of programming, which the average end user does not have. To say that a person is acting like a 4 year old or to say derogitory things about a person because they don't feel like learning how to computer program to do someting as simple as play a video game is quite arrogant. There seems to be this bagde of honor that some people wear that says "I'm a diehard linux user and I rue the day I will go back to Windoze... Curse Windoze and all of those feeble minded lazy folk who say anything good about it!" Let's be objective about this. I currently have two WinXP machines on a network with a dial-up internet gateway (which I'm currently using now... that is the computer I'm on is connected to the computer that is actually on the internet). I recently re-installed Fedora Core 1 on my laptop (had to stop using linux on my laptop because of the need for Windows for my C++, Visual Basic, and MCSE courses... 14gb is not much room for dualboot, at least not for me), and now have been able to connect it to my windows network and logon with access to both machines' shared objects. I have learned a lot dealing with linux, but my mom will not take the time to deal with what it takes to get to this point. I would basically be her Tech Support. I like linux, but I will not be blined by bias and try to sell it to anyone and everyone. It is clearly not for everyone because everyone is not computer literate enough to deal with it. This does not mean they don't want to think. Different strokes for different folks. Basically (after a painfully long post) if you want user friendly, use windows; if you want power, stability, and security (and if you don't mind learning the command line language, which is not that hard really, but still not for everyone) then get the latest linux distro. Many of them now are highly gui, but you will still find the best and most useful utilities and programs are run from the command line. I personally now get my distros with Linux Format magazine. I have about 4 distros from them. I got my wonderful Fedora Core 1 from that mag.

What most windows users (ordinary desktop users),who view linux with circumspection bordering on deep suspicion, don't realize that linux has equally good alternatives,if not better,to most windows software.Just that they think linux is a geek tool.Sure it is,but no linux dummy stays a dummy for ever.In windows,since a user has very little to experiment with (other than pretty eye candy),a user never gets to have a feel of the system.Agreed,not everyone has the inclination to become a system administrator,but playing aroynd with the system does make it robus and better in many ways.'course it isn't as simple as clicking a mouse button,but there's support available for linux like nowhere else.So if were a windows user,I would give a serious thought to switching to linux.