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Old 11-07-2018, 11:00 AM   #1
mikudo
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coworkers demanding bright light


Open question to the community, I have gotten to the point about this topic where I am done suffering fools.

What do you do at your job when the people who have to work in the same room as you demand either open blinds that leave blue sky and sun behind your display or overhead lighting that puts flouressent panel lighting directly behind your display?

I can read and write fine at my desk, it is dim but I can read. Some guy sitting right next to me says tht he cant read a document on his desk that I could read from 10 feet away even in dim lighting.

The blinds are all connected so people in a completely different room who DONT have a window behind their display complain about dim conditions required by my workspace.

Is it not a fact of the world that having skylight behind your display is harmful and causes headaches? Like the ones I get when the environment is brighter than my display?

How do you explain this to people who are trying to prove that they arent a special snowflake making special demands? (also tending to be junior employees who have worked maybe 1-2 years at their desk)

At my last position there was someone who specifically changed their seat to move across from me in an 'open office'(sic lol) as a specific means to antagonize me as part of some asinine internal political game.

Is there actual evidence I can point to? Is there any clear standard here besides me with my back against a wall having to look for a new job if someone demands a picture window or wal-mart grade lighting?

tactics, strategy, science, would be helpful thanks.
 
Old 11-07-2018, 11:18 AM   #2
Turbocapitalist
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Everyone's eyes are different, especially at different ages. Some will need a lot of light to see anything. So maybe get them a desk lamp on an extensible arm. That way they can focus the light exactly where they need it without spilling over everywhere. It will provide much more illumination for them than a ceiling lamp.

The window is a harder question, especially since they are considered luxury or status items in many countries. Perhaps some kind of compromise can be reached there, especially regarding positioning of you or the computers.
 
Old 11-07-2018, 12:30 PM   #3
dugan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikudo View Post
What do you do at your job when the people who have to work in the same room as you demand either open blinds that leave blue sky and sun behind your display or overhead lighting that puts flouressent panel lighting directly behind your display?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikudo View Post
either open blinds that leave blue sky and sun behind your display or overhead lighting that puts flouressent panel lighting directly behind your display?
Quote:
The blinds are all connected so people in a completely different room who DONT have a window behind their display complain about dim conditions required by my workspace.
If it happens more than once, I'd ask for my own workspace to be moved.

Last edited by dugan; 11-07-2018 at 01:27 PM.
 
Old 11-07-2018, 12:54 PM   #4
cantab
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I think bright natural light is good for you. Some studies indicate spending time in sunlight especially when young reduces shortsightedness, though this isn't settled science yet. Artificial and especially fluorescent light on the other hand has a reputation for causing headaches.

I suggest reading up on standards for PC ergonomics, for example that might be produced by a government agency, they'll usually have some comments on lighting.

You could consider wearing sunglasses, although if your boss has a bad attitude they'll probably object to that too.
 
Old 11-07-2018, 01:15 PM   #5
onebuck
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Moderator Response

Please realize that this thread does not meet the criteria for <Linux - General> Which as stated is 'This Linux forum is for general Linux questions and discussion.
If it is Linux Related and doesn't seem to fit in any other forum then this is the place.'

Therefore this thread is being moved to <General> This forum is for non-technical general discussion which can include both Linux and non-Linux topics. Have fun!
 
Old 11-07-2018, 02:29 PM   #6
TB0ne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikudo View Post
Open question to the community, I have gotten to the point about this topic where I am done suffering fools.

What do you do at your job when the people who have to work in the same room as you demand either open blinds that leave blue sky and sun behind your display or overhead lighting that puts flouressent panel lighting directly behind your display? I can read and write fine at my desk, it is dim but I can read. Some guy sitting right next to me says tht he cant read a document on his desk that I could read from 10 feet away even in dim lighting.

The blinds are all connected so people in a completely different room who DONT have a window behind their display complain about dim conditions required by my workspace. Is it not a fact of the world that having skylight behind your display is harmful and causes headaches? Like the ones I get when the environment is brighter than my display? How do you explain this to people who are trying to prove that they arent a special snowflake making special demands? (also tending to be junior employees who have worked maybe 1-2 years at their desk)

At my last position there was someone who specifically changed their seat to move across from me in an 'open office'(sic lol) as a specific means to antagonize me as part of some asinine internal political game. Is there actual evidence I can point to? Is there any clear standard here besides me with my back against a wall having to look for a new job if someone demands a picture window or wal-mart grade lighting? tactics, strategy, science, would be helpful thanks.
The best 'strategy' I can give you is "Get up, and tell your boss you can't see your monitor to get your job done". It's THEIR job to address these issues, and if they don't, take it to HR.

Stand up for yourself...you don't need 'tactics'.
 
Old 11-07-2018, 04:25 PM   #7
dugan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikudo View Post
Is it not a fact of the world that having skylight behind your display is harmful and causes headaches? Like the ones I get when the environment is brighter than my display?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikudo View Post
or overhead lighting that puts flouressent panel lighting directly behind your display?
So you're getting headaches from "the environment being brighter than my display"? Even with just normal "Walmart-grade" flourescent lighting?

No, that is absolutely not normal and it's not "a fact of life". Go get a doctor's note and argue for a medical accomodation.

Last edited by dugan; 11-07-2018 at 07:49 PM.
 
Old 11-09-2018, 02:55 AM   #8
mikudo
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TB0ne, dugan, turbocapitalist, thank you for the perspective and a little confirmation that at least my view on the matter is not as isolated as some would prefer to make it appear, and it is within my right and professional practice to 'stand up for myself' and demand an appropriate work environment.

Dugan, Cantab, this is not helpful and indicates to me that you are simply as uninformed as my coworkers.

Wal Mart lighting, panel flourescent lighting or any glare on the monitor, I hold, is unhealthy for anyone for long periods of time, and the question of what is too bright or hurts the eyes could be tested and measured with a light meter and spectrum analyzer and maybe even experiments on mice, but I believe that trying to get a law passed to protect peoples eyes from lighting conditions would be one of those things that industry would resist because it would cost them money and provide avenues for the working class to redirect the flow of crap up the ladder. And this sort of thing is categorically forbidden by the people who pay the stooges who make laws, althoug they would never admit to blinding their employees and being absolutely indifferent to their long term medical needs.

So to rely on some government agency to provide something healthy is, like the food pyramid, bound to end in disappointment for those naive enough to expect it.
 
Old 11-09-2018, 03:04 AM   #9
Turbocapitalist
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As you see the problem can be approached from many directions. Some approaches can be used concurrently. Depending on the country you are in there may also be a person or department for health, safety, and (thus) ergonomics. In the US there is OSHA. However, part of the challenge will be finding the right level to start at.
 
Old 11-09-2018, 04:30 AM   #10
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if you cannot move your workspace, why can't you just hang a curtain or sth similar in front of the window?

fwiw, i have heard a few times that one should not watch TV or use a computer in front of a completely dark background.
i usually have a lamp somewhere above & behind my screen. not shining into my eyes, but making the background a little brighter. i find it's good for my eyes.
 
Old 11-09-2018, 07:08 AM   #11
mikudo
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@turbo - yes this is something I will consider if the dispute gets any more stupid

@ondoho - the other options are all worse and this whole 'we dont like the way you bring the shades down because it makes us sad' came up after I had just started to feel comfortable in my spot, and everything else about the spot I actually like.

It really gets on my last nerve though when there is a technical problem with blinds that totally appears to confound people who manage production servers and are otherwise pretty bright. As long as it's me moving desks or burning out my retinas for their picture window, they are giving out orders but when it comes to actually diagnosing the actual problem they punt and make it all my problem. And then the gaslighting, 'why are you making such a big deal out of this?'

If you want to lose my respect this is an efficient way to do it.

edit: + yes I agree watching screen in absolute black is also harmful so I dont do that either, which would be a good example of applying absolutes to a problem demanding a balanced solution.

Last edited by mikudo; 11-09-2018 at 07:10 AM.
 
Old 11-09-2018, 01:08 PM   #12
dugan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikudo View Post
Dugan, Cantab, this is not helpful
And how can that possibly be true? You're asking us where you can find documentation to take to your company and prove that your work environment is damaging your health. I told you how to get it!

And honestly, I know what your problem is. You have eyestrain. That's where your abnormally extreme light sensitivity is coming from.

(Look, if you want to be able to cite the medical "fact" that a workday's worth of exposure to bright lights is bad for you: that is not a fact, it is not true, and that has been pointed out to you by multiple people, including me. You should have also have noticed that no-one else has your problem with the same environments. Okay, so you still want a more "informed" opinion than what me and your co-workers, and everyone else have gven you? Then you talk to a doctor, like I said to. If other people in your company had your problem, then I might have suggested collective action, but that's not the case).

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikudo View Post
Wal Mart lighting, panel flourescent lighting or any glare on the monitor, I hold, is unhealthy for anyone for long periods of time, and the question of what is too bright or hurts the eyes could be tested and measured with a light meter and spectrum analyzer and maybe even experiments on mice, but
Oh, you hold that, do you? Then you need a reality check. You personally have difficulty with bright work environments. You have also seen that no-one else in the same work environments have had issues. That's the actual data you should be starting from. Acknowledging this objective, data-backed reality does not make me, or your co-workers, "uninformed", even if it proves that something you "hold" is clearly not true. But, again, you are welcome to go get an actual doctor's opinion.

Coming up with a conclusion that you "hold", coming here to ask that we prove it true for you, and labelling all counterpoints as "uninformed", which is what you did, is not how you solve actual problems. I am being extremely helpful when I point this out to you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikudo View Post
they punt and make it all my problem
This is all your problem. That is an objectively obvious fact, because you've said yourself that no-one else in your office has it.

The kind of doctor you need to talk to to solve it is an optometrist.

Last edited by dugan; 11-09-2018 at 05:27 PM.
 
Old 11-09-2018, 05:21 PM   #13
dugan
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Just want to make sure I cover this and eliminate it as a possibility:

Were you recently bitten by a vampire? If so, how recently?

(Oh, and and I'll just let you know this now. If you label my advice to go talk to a doctor as "uninformed" ever again, then I'll simply have to acknowledge that you're refusing to take any feedback that goes against your preconceptions, and that you've chosen instead to label anyone who points out that you're wrong as an "uninformed" "fool". I'd then tailor my responses accordingly.

When you do make your appointment, this is what you say. "Doctor, I'm finding that the bright lights and sun-facing windows in my office are giving me headaches. Is this normal? Is there anything I should say to my company to get them to fix it...?").

Last edited by dugan; 11-09-2018 at 07:45 PM.
 
Old 11-10-2018, 05:12 AM   #14
ondoho
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikudo View Post
@ondoho - the other options are all worse and this whole 'we dont like the way you bring the shades down because it makes us sad' came up after I had just started to feel comfortable in my spot, and everything else about the spot I actually like.
i meant: attach sth to the window that will cover only the part that affects you, regardless of the full-breadth blinds.

but any reasonable person would have figured sth like that out for themselves already...
... or any other of the more peaceful approaches mentioned so far.
 
Old 11-10-2018, 12:09 PM   #15
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You all understand what mikudo's actual question is, right? It's not "how can I solve my problem?". It's "how can I make this everyone else' problem?".

To better understand where he's coming from and what he wants from this thread, just note how he talks about his co-workers a way that makes clear he considers himself completely, and utterly, superior to them.

Now, consider the very reasonable suggestions that were already given ("stand up for yourself!" "Move your own office space!" "Control the office lighting so that it's more localized!"), and understand that that most of them imply that the problem is his to solve. That is why he rejected them.

Involving OSHA or other regulatory bodies is not a reasonable suggestion, unless the intent is for mikudo to fail.

Last edited by dugan; 11-10-2018 at 03:42 PM.
 
  


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