New outbreak in China
https://www.dalystar.co.uk/news/worl...china-21912009

Finances
https://news.yaho.com/eurozone-econo...--finance.html

Birds dying
https://www.theguardian.com/environm...blue-tit-death

Corona causing strokes
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/22/healt...lts/index.html
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/wh...rs/ar-BB132xg1

Employers responsible for negligence
https://thehill.com/policy/finance/4...omers-contract
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...by-coronavirus

Oil cheaper than dirt
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/ab...rel-2020-04-22

Never let a crisis go to waste
https://www.npr.org/2020/04/22/84067...illion-in-fees

Back to the discussion on topic... Virus or no virus people need to get back to work. We cannot keep depressing the global economy by continuing to adhere to these shelter-in-place policies.. Its killing us economically, and if the virus is indeed a biological weapon that for sure would be the intent. We already know that wearing a mask and social distancing are effective in helping to reduce the spread. So lets just continue to practice those and press on forward (make mask wearing mandatory IF need be).. But the show must go on folks, we cannot sit here and continue to do nothing.

I was trying to find something on the order of "Do the ends justfy the means" and came across this article.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/23/us/re...ism/index.html

According to my neighbor the virus really only affects the sick and the old and they are going to die anyway so what is the point of "stay at home" ...

Are you suggesting that the people who do not want to see their country fall into an economic collapse, or the people who need to pay the rent / buy food for their families, are saying to themselves "screw old people"? Please don't take what CNN says as fact or somehow implicative of how the majority of people truly think and feel.

The idea of the ends justifies the means, utilitarianism or morality should transcend politics or whether or not you believe that CNN is fake news. The article posted may be just an opinion but it shows that reopening the economy may be more difficult then it appears.

I think my neighbor is saying screw old people but I don't and that was just a side comment.

I don't have the answers.

The problem is that not only are life savings are going up in smoke but things like the food production.

I am still leaning on the fact that Sweden seems to be on the right track. Time will tell. Healthy living and protect the vulnerable and go on with life.

Everyone ought to be onboard with healthy living anyways..

A hypothetical worst case scenario, children in grade school i.e. prekindergarten - 8 grade are basically all germ magnets, touch everything, don't wash their hands. If we assume they are all asymptomatic and will all pickup the virus what happens.

In the US there are 35.5 million children of that age in public schools, if we assume 2.5 children per household which is a tad low that would be about 14.2 million. Keeping it simple and assume two parents that would be around 28.4 million. Of that 28.4 million of those that have preexisting conditions like hypertension, asthma, obesity that would be about 24 million or so. Maybe a tad exaggerated. If both sets of grandparents are alive and assuming that all grandparents have some sort of preexisting condition that would be about 113 million.

In total about 137 million that could be hospitalized and/or die. The average American spends about $5,100 per month, 27 million filed for unemployment.

And yes all schools in Sweden are closed.

As an aside, the statistical dollar value of a human life is $10 million dollars, from safety standards to automobile insurance, to if a manufacture puts a $0.10 sticker on the package that says hazardous if swallowed.

Don't have reference for schools closed.

We don't know the actual death rate. Too little testing. Current unproven testing in Sweden and US seems to suggest that the virus is out there in much greater numbers already. New York testing maybe 2.8 million have already had it.
20% in Stockholm. Still far from 60% herd.

We still have no effort to figure out why children are so under represented. Their protection could help the rest of us.

USS Roosevelt sailors have 800 positive and none in ICU. An aircraft carrier isn't a place of only young healthy people. I'll agree that generally younger than 50 yo.

Everyone ought to claim they are worth $10M. They ought to treat their body and mind like it was that valuable.

"According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), there were 2,813,503 registered deaths in the United States in 2017." The top 10 causes are well represented by the ones in danger of Covid.

You all might find this article relevant: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/b...e-right-infect

A cousin of mine in Israel who has Parkinson's Disease told me that PD patients don't get covid-19. Not in Israel at least. But I did a quick DDG and I couldn't find anything like that. It's probably just an urban myth (or a rural myth in his case).

Hello hazel... here's hoping you're faring well. I suspect you must be as your posts as always are clear, informed and intelligent.

I hope you know me well enough even though your experience of me is entirely written word on LQN, but I think I have some level of consistency by which to be judged. There is speculation, which merely lacks enough evidence for a solid conclusion, and "pie in the sky", knee-jerk fear and wishful "thinking". You should know I try very hard to avoid the latter.

Regarding who is dying from Covid-19 - in my state of Virginia, USA at least, over 60% who have died fall between the ages of 20 and 59, with over 28% being between 20 and 39. If you think Covid 19 deaths are just about age you lack in research. The greatest divide isn't age but economic class and geography. If you're working class and live in or near a large city... well... you have my heartfelt and sincere wishes for good fortune. I'm a bit shocked and ashamed by some of the callous jerks in here but I won't say we might be better off or even OK to lose them. Maybe they're just really stressed out. I hope they come to their senses.

Which sites or other disinformation sources does your neighbor base their statements on? I'm curious as to where the disinformation is spreading from.

They were not specific except for not watching main stream news sources, reading aggregate news websites and Brietbart

There was a protest in my state yesterday and one of the protesters said that it was their right to do what they wanted with their body. Many think that stay at home is an over reaction but that just means its working.

If the first death from the virus was Feb 6 in the US from someone that had not traveled it was here weeks before. I assume there was thousands of passengers on direct flights arriving before the ban was in place and the first known case in China.

When this is over we will be second guessing the mistakes for a long time...

In the state of Virgina there's only been 324 reported deaths out of 10k confirmed cases. I think we should look to New York (where it has hit the hardest) for current trends.. In the great state of New York there's is as of late 263K confirmed cases, with 15.7k confirmed deaths. The vast majority of those deaths were 65+. All evidence points to it affecting mainly the elderly, and individuals with underlying heath conditions. The whole rhetoric of it being just as deadly to perfectly healthy young people is just more FUD designed to scare you. Every time there's a hint of good news someone comes out to discredit it.. Here's some more good news:

If this is true that means the death rate is drastically lower than our current estimates..

You should learn to grow tougher skin, and to 'wear the world as a loose garment'.