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Old 07-29-2020, 11:11 PM   #751
enorbet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ondoho View Post
So you're saying this Tegnell person is the "king"'s astrologer?
Setting aside that Sweden actually has a decorative monarch, I assume you mean there's some sort of "boss" leading the country?
Essentially you're assuming that there's 1 person that has the influence to tell another 1 person how things are run for a whole country?
No, ondoho. I'm saying that when actual information is slim and flimsy leaders flounder around looking for something or someone to either lean on or blame to shirk the onus off of themselves and appear knowledgeable and in control. The sort of egos attracted to positions of power don't enjoy "I don't know" as an option.
 
Old 07-30-2020, 05:56 AM   #752
ondoho
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
No, ondoho. I'm saying that when actual information is slim and flimsy leaders flounder around looking for something or someone to either lean on or blame to shirk the onus off of themselves and appear knowledgeable and in control. The sort of egos attracted to positions of power don't enjoy "I don't know" as an option.
I don't think any of that is happening in Sweden.
Tegnell has been the leader of the Health Service's infectious deseases department long before the Covid-19 outbreak. To put it simply, he started it, he ended it, he is probably trying to save face now (whether for himself or the Health Service or Sweden I do not know) with reconciliatory but strangely vague announcements.
Neither scapegoating nor the "King's Astrologer"-effect applies here - in my opinion, of course.
I think you're trying to apply patterns you know from your own government to a situation you know very little of, then using romantically outdated comparisons that end up applying to your patterns, not the actual situation.
Why not just get online and read whatever reporting you can find instead? Or won't your search bubble let you leave the American continent?
 
Old 07-30-2020, 04:21 PM   #753
enorbet
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LOL ondoho. I find it difficult to think you actually imagine I don't research. It seems far more likely to me that you have some perceived grudge against anything or anyone USA and especially Capitalism which I've made abundantly clear that I support. That seems to be a thorn in your Socialist blanket, much as my noting that I was an early supporter of Ayn Rand and Objectivist Philosophy when I was a teenager.

I bear you no ill will, ondoho, but I would like to point out that not everything US == Evil. One glaring example is this global medium on which you and I and all the others here are communicating and researching. It was US Americans that invented and developed The Internet and freely shared it with the entire world. On a much larger and longer running scale, while the roots are more global and heavily influenced by revolutions all around Europe, the US is a shining example of practiced championing of Liberty and Equality AND the pitfalls, conflicts and mistakes that come with that territory.

I submit that "the enemy" is not ordinary people who just want to live in a state of relative freedom and get along but the Schadenfruede-riddled power freaks who wish to control everything and everybody and feel entitled to do so.

Specific to the last few posts, I still think "lean on or blame to shirk the onus off of themselves and appear knowledgeable and in control" is quite consistent with even your "unbiased" assessment of Tegnell and Swedish leadership.
 
Old 07-30-2020, 05:10 PM   #754
Hermani
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Originally Posted by jefro View Post
If tonic water is sold freely then why do so many people get upset about hydroxychloroquine treatments? Bet everyone here has tasted tonic water with or without gin.

When I went to Africa they handed that stuff out like it was candy, maybe a billion people have used it. Only some vision gene and some few other issues are a problem. I can't say if it helps but making a political issue out of it may not be the best course.
We gave it to COVID patients in the recommended dose and a LOT of them got long QT on their ECG and some actually developed heart rhythm disturbances. I know because me and my colleagues had to sign off those ECGs. And it did not seem to do much, either. So we stopped using it as soon as our national health ministry pulled the recommendation to use it.

It still could be beneficial but it certainly is no "wonder drug" and has some serious side effects in the recommended dosage. Please note that this dosage is MUCH higher than the recommended dosage used in malaria prophylaxis and also higher than the recommended dosage for the treatment of an acute malaria attack. (600 mg base per day instead of 400 mg base per week).

I am really baffled by the politicization of this medicine. It is just that: a medicine. As as doctor you use it if it is beneficial to your patients and you don't if it is not. And when in doubt: don't do it (in Latin "in dubio abstine").

Last edited by Hermani; 07-30-2020 at 05:16 PM.
 
Old 07-30-2020, 05:36 PM   #755
boughtonp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
It was US Americans that invented and developed The Internet and freely shared it with the entire world.
That depends how pedantic one gets...

It was the British Christopher Strachey who inspired the vision of American Joseph Licklider's, (who later became director of the new department at DARPA which developed the ARPANET).

Paul Baran, a Polish American, was one of the inventors of packet switching, the other was the Welsh Donald Davies at the NPL in the UK.

TCP/IP is usually credited to Vint Cerf and Bob Kahn, but the French Hubert Zimmermann and Louis Pouzin are both credited with influencing the design, as is Peter Kirstein, a German Brit.

That's just from a cursory investigation because I thought there might be a bunch of non-American scientists working in the US - I don't doubt that there were several others involved in every part of it.

Anyway, let's hope one of the good things that emerges from the other end of this pandemic is to further highlight the meaninglessness of nationalism and national borders, and to increase the international collaborations that already occur among many fields.

 
Old 07-30-2020, 06:11 PM   #756
ondoho
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^ Yep. And the WWW was born in Switzerland.

Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
I find it difficult to think you actually imagine I don't research.
Must be the search bubble then.

Quote:
It seems far more likely to me that you have some perceived grudge against anything or anyone USA and especially Capitalism which I've made abundantly clear that I support. That seems to be a thorn in your Socialist blanket, much as my noting that I was an early supporter of Ayn Rand and Objectivist Philosophy when I was a teenager.
Limited perception: Must be either black or white, either for or against, either good or evil.
Just because I criticise certain aspects of the US of NA I must be against the USA in general, and therefore a socialist... my deity, do you even hear what you're saying there?

Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
Specific to the last few posts, I still think "lean on or blame to shirk the onus off of themselves and appear knowledgeable and in control" is quite consistent with even your "unbiased" assessment of Tegnell and Swedish leadership.
And I still don't think so, but by all means tell us which part of the Swedish government (in the widest sense) plays which part in this little classic?

And please, if you think I'm biased, don't express it by saying I'm "unbiased".

Last edited by ondoho; 07-30-2020 at 06:19 PM.
 
Old 07-30-2020, 07:49 PM   #757
jefro
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"certainly is no "wonder drug"" Yes, I totally agree Hermani.

My thinking is that we might see a cocktail of drugs that may ultimately help some patients. The right drugs at the right time and for the right set of symptoms.

Obviously either a cure be it natural or man made would help.
 
  


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