Upon further investigation it is odd that the death toll in China and Russia are as low are they are, which seems to suggest that people with a certain genetic make up are more susceptible than others. That I guess does lend some merit to the idea that it was created in a lab, and why it has the properties it does. E.g. it strikes the worst possible balance: It's deadly enough to kill millions, but not so deadly that it burns out its host pool before it can spread (unlike SARS which is so deadly that it killed it's victims before it could spread to many others).

If this is the case then the U.S. government needs to come out right and say this is a bioweapon; that is if we truly wish to contain it.. Otherwise there will be that significant number of the population who will just not take it seriously.

Russia is on it's way up. Which suggests to me that they got hit later that some others did.

Russia Total 57999 New 5236 Dead 513

They are getting hammered. They are in earlier days I think.

You underestimate the power of the dark side Luke. They are like the Terminator, they will not stop until their objectives have been fullfilled.

Time will tell, especially when the virus mutates.. But that still doesnt account for China's numbers.

Surely Russia and China are the two countries in the best position to massage their figures. Under a dictatorship, it's the government and not the virus which decides on the number of covid deaths.

Yes, I think it is fair to say that the China numbers cannot be possible for a population of 1.4 billion who would have known a lot less about the virus being the first nation to get it. That alone makes the figures look very suspect. Didn't they try to suppress information about it coming out, whistle-blowers, etc.? I try not to dig into that stuff too much, but certainly I do not believe those figures.

I don't wish to diffuse this thread but I think you need to research the above myth. Scientists did NOT alter climate data "to get the results they wanted". First off who in their right mind would 1) want to be viewed as "chicken little", 2) publicly print data bound to be heavily scrutinized making getting caught in a lie inevitable, and 3) for any reason create a phony hysteria? In fact, the student emails to which you refer, were collected over several years and hacked with the expressed purpose of discovering anything that could be used to discredit climate science with specific regard to human causes for global climate change. Please look this up and see for yourself and stop repeating FUD myth.

It's as phony as the myth that Jane Fonda turned in an American prisoner of war for secretly handing her a letter home. The truth was the North Vietnamese WANTED prisoners to write home to increase urgency to cave in to their demands at the peace conference tables. The actual prisoners at that camp vouched for Ms Fonda. "Stars and Stripes" made up the story, completely fabricated to discredit the anti-war and peace movements. Similarly the huge pockets of Big Oil funded this and many other such untruths as tyhey have a distinctly vested interest. Scientists do not. The exist solely on reputation for NOT altering data since it is always uncovered as well as counter-productive to begin with.

That's right! The doctor who first sounded the alarm was told by the police to shut up or he would be arrested for spreading harmful rumours. He subsequently died of covid-19.

<facepalm> Yet another thread that seems bound to devolve into political platitudes. I really did hope this subject would be serious enough people would actually be motivated to think instead of acting like paranoid parrots. <sigh> Who is next to be quoted on Covid-19, Alex Jones? Rush Limbaugh?

@enobet My initial reply to you was in no way meant to illicitate a defensive response, such as: I didn't imply what you said was in any way [intentionaly] political. Maybe the name Trump just causes that reaction in some.. But you harp on us for delving into politics when you yourself are bringing up arguably off topic subjects: No one was talking about whether Trump did a good job or not, I was simply stating that as soon as this dies down the media will go back to the usual MO of harping on him. And then you bring up Vietnam which is for sure off topic.

I read what you wrote @enorbet. Appreciate the info. I was going to look a that when I had time. That is what I made this thread for, info. Maybe members can glean some good from it.

Plus that kind of bares out what I posted earlier. We different groups of Americans have our "own facts". And it is reflected in how the different groups are acting/reacting to Covid19, and believing or not the advise that the "leaders" are giving us. You have seen that in this thread, and some of the links that have been posted.

I tried to post possible reasons for that earlier. It isn't just because people listen to their own radio personality that they like. Why do we even have Rush Limbaugh's and Rachael Maddow's to start with. Something drove us to that.

Don't quit the thread. We need your info and everyone else's.

[sarcasm]No, he only gets quoted when you want to talk about "false flags"[/sarcasm]

https://news.trust.org/item/20200422135508-j6g0r
https://news.trust.org/item/20200421225557-nvm1g
https://news.trust.org/item/20200422152227-t40b6
https://news.trust.org/item/20200420094913-6wo9g/
https://apnews.com/d21fe9a4864971427d40fd2caa61ad34
https://apnews.com/e9df9b0771ab815f92a45877e66cf3e6
https://apnews.com/f56aa574c955855b8358cd45688520f6
https://www.thehour.com/news/article...s-15218500.php

Actually I hoped to defuse any political issues by pointing out his actions are pretty average globally and there is no good reason to either applaud or boo him on this subject that I have seen.

First off I didn't harp. What I brought up I think is actually pertinent, not off topic. All media does not harp on Trump. I don't see enough variety to state that media is evenly balanced but I do see there are some outlets that praise him and others that damn him. There's no need to assume all media is one-sided. It isn't.

I didn't "bring up Vietnam". I brought up a "news" event during the Vietnam War that was utterly false and proven so decades ago yet still exists in 2020 and is perpetuated by those that don't bother to check the facts. I see that as an illustration of what some are doing here with Covid-19 all because of partisan politics. I actually don't mind much that politics enters damned near everything as long as it doesn't become strict party line politics that is commonly devoid of critical thought on all sides.

The posts in this thread fall into two main categories 1) Present conditions and how to gauge the threat and what can be done to minimize that threat, and 2) Speculation on how bad (or not) it will get, how long it will last and what will life be like after it has died out. I just think we need to remember that speculation is not factual by nature and a type of post that needs to be very disciplined with fact checking... and certainly devoid of party politics since it is so common that people are rarely swayed or moved in any way by party politics. Such conversations tend to be utterly bipolar and generally useless.

Thank you teckk... cool post and I frankly laughed out loud at the last line Humor is always welcome. I have no intention of quitting. My skin is pretty thick and I'm not invested in any party politics. Being in Science, I'm used to modifying my views regularly as new information comes in. Party Politics certainly doesn't define me. I'm enough of an oddball that some of my views are seen as Left while others are further to the Right than a bicycle on the Autobahn.

I very much like the comment you make "Why do we even have Rush Limbaugh's and Rachael Maddow's to start with. Something drove us to that." That's a really good question... for another thread but a very important question nonetheless. Many think the whole world has gone mad and I'd like to minimize that drift. That's a "dead end" path. It's looking like you'd like that, too. Thanks.

I didn't say China did produce the virus nor did I say they selectively searched for it.

I said they did and do have that ability.

The Lab in China in question still refused to let anyone visit. Hummm.

What can be gained in long term may be the planet.

Lucky Sweden seems to be working solution at the cost of the seniors.

No, but when everything is being turned upside down, you need to look beyond the moment and consider what kind of society we are likely to end up with. And also what kind of society we might like to end up with. If people in general don't start discussing this now, we will probably have something that none of us would have chosen imposed on us by governments.

The drift towards "business as usual" has always seemed irresistible, but now covid-19 has halted that for a while and we are being given a unique opportunity to re-evaluate our economic priorities. Of course this involves speculation because very little about the future can be factual. But serious and informed speculation has now become necessary. Without it, we are sleepwalking into catastrophe.