I think the "average computer user" is skilled enough to set up Linux, but it takes more than the ability. One has to have a reason to do so. His impetus must include the perception of improved political or technical well-being.

As far as I'm concerned that's good enough. Adding proprietary enhancements to make it easier will not make Linux better, nor will it improve the Linux community. Linux is on a steady growth curve, and every Linux user, including the newbies, helps at least one beginner per year get thru an initial Linux installation. That is healthy growth for both FOSS and the Linux community.

@ lebabyg:

I complain about what the guy said about installing packages and you're telling me I'm *wrong* and then detail your HARDWARE problems. Now I'm sure the guy wasn't referring to "installing" 3rd party drivers and what not others, but "regular" [i.e. interactive, or whatever] programs; that's what I was referring to as well.

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Now.. you describe installing windows as having someone build your dream home.. yet you also state that you absolutely hate windows. What on earth?

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I mostly don't promote Linux to Windows users. There's a big difference between stating that Linux is ready for "regular users" and stating that some guy talked BS about the difficulty of some things in Linux as opposed to Windows.

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Then most people shouldn't try it. I couldn't care less as it is not my job to advertise Linux nor help it spread. Nor is it my will to do so. I will happily contribue source wherever I can, help out etc. [because I want to, not because I have any kind of *moral* or whatever obligation]; but I'm not into marketing.

Linux Laptop Resellers
http://mcelrath.org/laptops.html

EmperorLinux - Linux Laptops and Notebooks
http://www.emperorlinux.com/

Linux Online - Vendors: Systems:esktops
http://www.linux.org/vendor/system/desktop.html

There are actually quite a few companies that sell either no OS systems or ones with Linux preinstalled.

Why buy a Dell, Hp or any of the other systems that come with windows when you can buy a linux system that is actually made to be linux compatible.

introuble: You entirely missed my point, you said that it is easy to install a package on linux using a package management programme such as apt-get, yast, yum, urpmi etc. However to get to that point you've first got to install linux: Set up your partition, work out how to use a new interface, work out how to get your graphics card to work, all of which with no internet because your wireless card isn't supported. Then you've got to configure your package management programme, a total pain behind a proxy (if you don't know what to do), when all you want to do is type out your CV on MSOffice. My point is that as linux users we would all like to see more people port to linux, but this is never going to happen in the droves it needs to to release MSofts hold until linux is easier to install and use. And you missed my point about the dream home, my point was that windows never lives up to the promise that Microsoft give, where as linux does that and more but it takes much more time and effort. Unfortunately it is only with the support of hardware vendors that linux can truely move forwards. Maybe if more people did try and sell linux, then this would happen.

dude emperorlinux is freaking insanely expensive o_______o. I cant believe theyre trying to sell okay laptops for like $3000. Dells work perfectly out of the box and are like 1200 for a really good one....

...because I can buy an HP machine at Wal-Mart that has an AMD Turion 64 X2 processor, 2 gigs of RAM, a Dual Layer DVD burner, 120gig hard drive.. shipped to me for under $1000. With a deal like that, I am not too worried if a small portion of it goes to Microsoft...

I wouldn't pay $500 for such a computer with HP or Dell's name on it. In order to get a truly compatible Linux computer, you have to either build your own, which I do, or buy a generic model. A better place to start looking for such computers online is
The Pre-Installed Linux Vendor Database They also have a nice assortment of vendors which sell PCs with no OS installed. Again, the only sensible solution for an experienced Linux user.

I have certainly enjoyed the varying opinions expressed here on the forum in the battle between Linux & Windows but what I have found is that among the "great unwashed" of computer users out there, the majority of users don't know how to fully utilize their systems in the first place.

There's a lot of folk out there who can't get the red light to stop blinking on their VCR. The Linux-Windows discussion means little to them.

I am having fun playing with Linux, it's certainly inexpensive, and so far its doing everything I want.

With corporations, everything is about control; control your market, control your costs, control your workers, etc. Harold Gneen, CEO of ITT, in replying to a congressional panel asking about the reason for ITT's involvement in the coup de da that brought down the government of Chile, replied, "We don't like surprises," (or something to that affect).

Microsoft may be in for some surprises in the near distant future.

Linux is always a pleasant surprise when it works.

@ lebabyg: But I don't care about how much difficulty a user (new or not) has setting up his box. I didn't comment on THAT part of the "Linux experience" [let it not be understood that I think setting up a Linux box always contains "difficult" part(s)]. I have to repeat (again?) that I was referring only to the process of installing applications. Between my "sarcasm" pseudo-tags I detailed a fictional comparison between installing something available online on Windows and on a Debian-based distribution. I didn't detail installing the system, making <some device> work, etc.

For a new user, maybe. For everybody else, it should not be a surprise.

Excuse my ignorance, but what is the big difference from a "Raven" (Thinkpad X60) from EmperorLinux and one purchased from Lenovo's website? The processor is the same, I am going to assume the internal workings are the same. The only difference is a kernal that is said to be configured for the system.

Now I have seen different people run different versions of Linux on their store-bought laptops without much trouble. If spending an extra $500-$1000 (or more) to keep from any troubles with the install, I think I will just take up the challenge of trying to get Linux to work well with my store-bought machine.