The Faith & Religion mega Thread

When you teach something that's not a fact to your kids, we get the world we're living in!

It could be perfect but instincts run rampant like health care and police over education...

Ironically how did we get health care and police? :lol:

The only thing I can relate to in the new testament that rings of truth is when Jesus went all thug biker on the capitalists at the temple.

Seems Jesus don't like capitalists/money changers. That should tell ya something. But folks ignore that inconvenient truth.

Then there is eye of the needle story about heaven. So you so called believers. Be afraid. You capitalists.

Into My Arms - Nick Cave & the Bad Seeds

https://www.forbes.com/sites/billflax/2012/01/31/was-jesus-a-socialist-capitalist-or-something-else/?sh=169051f87324

A bit biased I'd say

Please trust me on this, @business_kid ... I am not(!) "trolling."

"Skin-in-game measure?" Zero. I have none. "Desire to 'win' an argument, or to confront anyone's religious beliefs or opinions?" Zero. I have none.

I'm simply expressing my opinions, not(!) in confrontation with anyone else's, and not(!)(!) in an effort to convince them "otherwise."

"This is what I think right now. Don't agree with me? Cool."

I really can't think of anything in human existence that is more utterly personal than one's personal relationship to one's [G|g]od, and therefore I profoundly respect that. Even as our respective ships pass in the night, we do not fire upon one another.

I am very sensitive to the warning that "you can sin against your brother." (1 Corinthians 8, et seq) "Right or wrong, sometimes it's very wrong to 'be right.'" Or,to insist that you must be – which I do not.

It isn't in my interests right now to further press the points that I have previously made – you can search the Internet as easily as I can – because my objective in having said these things is not "confrontation." Peace.

Dog spelled backwards is goD making it, followers, shepherd... now if only it wasn't speaking through humans?!.

If you're taught and believe different than someone else and reality, that's conflict! :duh:

Sit Boo Bo!!!!

I'll admit we're, stupid why can't you?

Keep it real, evolve...

If you come at a baby wrong e.g., when it tries to stick it's tongue in an electrical outlet,,, it may thank you're being a total prick... redesign.

Originally Posted by rokytnji The only thing I can relate to in the new testament that rings of truth is when Jesus went all thug biker on the capitalists at the temple.

It was a family tradition! Before Jesus was born, his mother said of God: "He has cast down the mighty from their seats and exalted those of low degree. He has filled the hungry with good things and sent the rich away empty." She obviously brought up all her sons to think likewise. You really should read what Jesus's brother James has to say about rich businessmen; it's at the end of his only surviving letter, fairly near the end of the New Testament. An American clergyman once, as a joke, presented this passage to a group of self-styled "Christian businessmen", pretending that it had been written by the American Socialist Writer Upton Sinclair. After they had all denounced it as outrageous, he showed them that it came out of the New Testament. Cue

@sundialsvcs:You're fairly free in taking cheap shots at the Bible which influence the opinions of others if not challenged. It wasn't clear from your post that this was merely opinions. To me it came across as "General Knowledge." In fact, most supposed contradictions and 'nonsensical statements' collapse on examination. You can't get much out of the Bible with a superficial examination. But I seem to be one of the few here who actually study it.

I reckon Jesus was prophesying to the Pharisees & Saduccees when he went 'all thug biker' as was said. His judgement climaxed in Matt 23:38 "Look! Your house is abandoned to you." The Jewish Leaders had rejected Jesus as their Messiah, and God was serving notice that they were to be rejected as his people. You find the same message in the parable of the vineyard & cultivators.Matthew 21:33-43

It's interesting to note that the Pharisees & Saduccees got the point, even if the esteemed members of this forum don't.

@business_kid, I am certainly not "taking cheap shots at the Bible." I am very keenly aware of just how intensively people – like you – feel about that Book. Therefore, even as I say publicly that I do not feel the same, no one should interpret this statement to be any sort of confrontation. As I have said repeatedly, "I have no skin in this game."

But also, please avoid ad hominem. Not only have I "studied" this Book, but I have over the years studied the works of many other people who have studied it. It, and the Torah, and the Q'ran, and the Baghavad Gita, and a great many other things even more obscure. Including many so-called "gospels" which were branded (by someone, at some time) as heretical works.

In my house that has no television(!), and that has not had one in more than thirty years, I spend a great many happy hours reading books until very late in the night. The parallel subjects of religion and philosophy are among my favorites, because "here is where you find humanity itself."

Camels passing through eyes of needles and any other criticism or stigmatising of wealth/greed in the bible is just part of the smoke and mirrors game which ensured the ignorant, uneducated and impoverished remained so, while the wealthy remained in power as despots. The whole church system depended on "group think" and peer pressure - and of course fear. i.e. encouraging the poor to remain poor in the vain hope that there is an afterlife... and putting the "fear of god" into them, should they ever want something better than their present miserable existence.

Not-at least some nut can't shoot John Lennon again... that's not open to interpretation!

@sundialsvcs Got your points, and apologies if I came accross as shirty or insulting. I too have read

• The Bible
• The Koran
• The Baghavad Ghita
• The book of Mormon
• Several uninspired "holy" books

The Bible stands alone, imho. It seems to be the only one with a theme, and where the God in Question comes across as a person. It also has prophecies coming true today. I listed the books above in descending order of merit IMHO. I won't say more, to avoid insulting folks.

The last half century has yielded many very early Scriptural fragments which blow all suggested Later Dates for the writing of them out of the water. There's even a Hebrew version of Matthew. Apparently Matthew wrote initially for the Jews, but translated it fairly rapidly into Greek. Rare Hebrew copies were kept by some Jews to use against Christians. One showed up in a polemical work against Christianity, and another was found in Rome and is now in the National Library in Paris. The only issue is that the Hebrew pages got very tatty before they were copied, so some spots had to be translated back from Greek, because words were missing. But comparison allows the thing to be refined.

@cynwulf: Camels passing through needles is hyperbole, or exaggerated speech, and Jesus used it quite a bit for effect. Agree 100% with yoiur clergy comments. In fact, having clergy at all seems to be a sign of a false religion, as Jesus and his Apostles didn't dress different, use titles, or hold themselves aloof.

@business_kid, we have no quarrel. And, please always continue to "feel free to say [more]." You won't insult anyone – that's why this thread has now continued to now 10,198 posts.

It's news to me that "there was a Hebrew version of Matthew," for example. I'd love for you to now list a few hyperlink-and/or-bibliographic citations about that. And ... "they were kept as a weapon?" Gee, I didn't know any of that until now. Were any of the other canonical – and/or non-canonical – Gospels similarly treated?

Do we have any solid indication that the Hebrew versions came first? We know that several languages – Hebrew, Aramaic, various versions of Latin – were simultaneously in circulation at that time.

I'd also be rather interested to hear what you've called "uninspired holy books." Not to then pass judgment on your selections, but simply out of curiosity as to what they are.

The definition of stupid is believing anything you're thought that isn't real. It's also a capitalist way of promoting "innovation," which comes from need not greed! Or fuucckkig stupidity.!? We!

iconically Elcy is our puppy, she says(?): I don't understand human sh!t but play with me!