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Any kind of a person (thanks to religion we have to sort these people out: "good," bad*,,,) with any kind of agenda, can use these (my bad, PC:) "the telephone game" spanning now history.
I said that the law was "on the books," not that it is actually enforced. It was intended to prevent the appearance of a "Church of America."
I think the Bible is nearer the mark. False Religion is depicted in Revelation 17 as a harlot having sex with the Governments. There's religion behind at least one side in every war. The political powers need the churches to keep the conscripts coming, and the clergy can exercise their influence in return.
Ireland was totally dominated by Catholicism until the 1990s when decades worth of child abuse scandals came out. It's different now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Weinberg
Religion is an insult to human dignity. Without it you'd have good people doing good things and evil
people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, it takes religion.
It's historically interesting that [Ireland ...] "was totally dominated by" Catholicism, and certainly was not the only one, while as we very well know other European nations "were totally dominated by" Protestantism. Wars, particularly between England, France, and Germany, appear to have been brought about by not-much-more if-anything than this conflict ... and they happened quite frequently.
You can't look at battles between (and, within ...) European/Eastern states, and the military alliances which they concluded, nor the (usually "arranged") marital relationships between their ruling families, without confronting "Catholicism vs. Protestantism." Because, in a great many ways, "[state ...] religion was considerably more powerful than the state."
And therefore, you can easily imagine where this placed "the Office of the Pope," which had no clear Protestant equivalent although many tried to make one. The history of the Papacy was indelibly influenced by this all-encompassing dynamic, as well as earlier very-political things like "the Crusades" and "Indulgences."
"In the name of God,™" here we see an amazing number of things throughout human history that are ... "oh, so purely and completely human!"
And ... if you like ... "never-ending demonstrations of God's insight, flexibility, and patience" when dealing with His mud-made-things.
I'll leave your "faith" precisely where it belongs – personally, between you and your "God, god, or lack thereof." But I still find the history to be fascinating.
Last edited by sundialsvcs; 08-16-2021 at 02:52 PM.
Hi guys
This video is of a World Government Summit in Dubai so while it doesn't deal specifically in Religion it is quite naturally the 300 pound gorilla in the room since something like 135 countries are represented there. These are commonly interesting symposiums but the reason I'm linking this one is that it apples to all manner of human interaction, especially those that exhibit leaders and strategies. I found it both enlightening and uplifting and I sincerely hopw others will find something of value in it, too.
It begins asking the question posed in light of the Vietnam War. "How can an army win virtually every major conflict, decimate enemy forces, destroy major supply lines while taking relatively minor losses and still lose a war?" From there he goes into game theory and the difference between Finite Games and Infinite Games, and what it even means "to win". I think this applies to the recent posts noting the fallacy and fruitlessness of fighting religious battles. I suspect everyone can find something of value in this deep look into human values and frailty.
If you like this you might also like the one with Elon Musk describing his greatest challenge and triumph in assuming he was always going to be just a little bit wrong, and then seeing his goal as being just a wee bit "less wrong" and how much more useful that mindset is than an assumption of always being right - Evolution vs/ Stagnation.
I didn't even know there was a World Government Summit. It sounds nightmarish, the kind of thing QAnon might have invented.
Regarding Vietnam, I always remember something Ho Chi Minh is supposed to have said in an interview with a journalist: "This is how it will be. They will kill ten of us and we will kill one of them. Then they will kill another ten of us and we will kill one of them. And they will get tired first."
It's historically interesting that [Ireland ...] "was totally dominated by" Catholicism, and certainly was not the only one, while as we very well know other European nations "were totally dominated by" Protestantism. Wars, particularly between England, France, and Germany, appear to have been brought about by not-much-more if-anything than this conflict ... and they happened quite frequently.
You can't look at battles between (and, within ...) European/Eastern states, and the military alliances which they concluded, nor the (usually "arranged") marital relationships between their ruling families, without confronting "Catholicism vs. Protestantism." Because, in a great many ways, "[state ...] religion was considerably more powerful than the state."
And therefore, you can easily imagine where this placed "the Office of the Pope," which had no clear Protestant equivalent although many tried to make one. The history of the Papacy was indelibly influenced by this all-encompassing dynamic, as well as earlier very-political things like "the Crusades" and "Indulgences."
"In the name of God,™" here we see an amazing number of things throughout human history that are ... "oh, so purely and completely human!"
And ... if you like ... "never-ending demonstrations of God's insight, flexibility, and patience" when dealing with His mud-made-things.
I'll leave your "faith" precisely where it belongs – personally, between you and your "God, god, or lack thereof." But I still find the history to be fascinating.
Yes, false religions always carved each other up. As soon as Protestant religions formed, they were attacked. I believe there always were (and are) well intentioned and spiritually minded people throughout the time, and God knows who they are. The illustration in Ezekiel chapter 9:1-11 of the man with the secretary's inkhorn illustrates that there were people worth saving when Jerusalem was being destroyed in Ezekiel's time (the destruction of 607BC) and he was foretelling it from Babylonian captivity.
Not that it matters in the least to me, but I believe America is a failed power. Sure, they have the weapons but Ho Chi Minh & the Taliban were right - persistence pays off. There's Presidential elections every 4 years in the States, with Congress/Senate elections every 2 years. It's too often, and power is too evenly balanced. Now Rule #1 in politics is: "You must get yourself elected" before you can do anything or rip off anything. Elections also cost in the Excited States, so you have to sell you soul to Big Business as well. This has been noticed …
Quote:
Politician, n: Someone who gets money from the rich and votes from the poor to protect them from each other.
Quote:
Originally Posted by H.L. Mencken
On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.
Quote:
Political T.V. commercials prove one thing: some candidates can tell
all their good points and qualifications in just 30 seconds.
Then people get elected simply by promising to end whatever war the fickle puiblic are fed up with.
Last edited by business_kid; 08-17-2021 at 06:18 AM.
If you want wars to be "quickly won," you must make them Hell, not profitable.
Now that the USA is getting out of Afghanistan with its tail between its legs, plenty of military contractors are going to be cut off from fat contracts – billions of dollars' worth. They will immediately start pushing for involvement in some new war, somewhere else. Perhaps that new war will be against American People who can be labeled "political dissidents." "Enemies of the State" and all that that entails ...
We shouldn't think Catholics or Protestants are the only offenders here.
When Muhammed started Islam,he started war in (what today is) Saudi Arabia, Egypt, & Israel. Muslim caliphs apparently have a very short life expectancy, but they're not worried. If they die fighting in a Jihad (a Holy War declared so by some clerical rank) they are promised to go straight to heaven with 7 virgins, a picture I find grossly offensive to women. Muhammed's successors built the Rashidun_Caliphate It's all blood, war, suffering, etc. It makes you ask: What sort of person is their God? Christianity likewise. Hindu and even Bhuddist war history is better, but not much, although Bhudda himself was a pacifist.
For the record, I'm neutral in politics, don't join armies or kill folks. My God is a nice guy.
I didn't even know there was a World Government Summit. It sounds nightmarish, the kind of thing QAnon might have invented.
Regarding Vietnam, I always remember something Ho Chi Minh is supposed to have said in an interview with a journalist: "This is how it will be. They will kill ten of us and we will kill one of them. Then they will kill another ten of us and we will kill one of them. And they will get tired first."
Did you watch the video? They might have named it better since even just adding an "s" to "government" would be better but every episode I've seen is quite profound and hopeful. QAnon? They likely are revolted by every multi-government syposium, even G4.
"Catholics and Protestants" are definitely not the only offenders. Religions and specific theologies, regardless of name, have always been used in service of the State, and likewise to undermine or even to destroy the State. You can never separate the two.
Last edited by sundialsvcs; 08-17-2021 at 08:55 PM.
"Catholics and Protestants" are definitely not the only offenders. Religions and specific theologies, regardless of name, have always been used in service of the State, and likewise to undermine or even to destroy the State. You can never separate the two.
Yes, I know, agree, and even mentioned made the point first from scripture in post #10041, in the paragraph about Revelation chapter 17 that everybody ignored, siezing on my other line instead. You seem to have arrived at it from a considerstion of world events and history. For me, it always seems to be the same: I point to a prophecy's fulfilment in our times, which I consider significant; people ignore the meat of the Scriptures (the fulfilled prophecy), but focus on Scripture as a work of literature, or ignore it altogether.
False religion has done their job (of turning people off religion) so well people won't even bother to look up the Scriptures when I show them what they have been fooled by Oh well.
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