DAChristen29 naivete touches me deeply. I used to work for global services (hence the handle) - heaps of linux brown bags, red books and virtual paddle-pools on NetFinity servers. IBM aren't in this for open software. It's a stick for Lou to beat Bill with. Its a huge ego trip for all these fifty-something former-wunderkinder. (Larry Ellison's the worst -uugh). But its how you assume that if its Blue its necessarily good... It made me smile and go... HA! I'm not complaining but the idea of some guy cranking out linux in his attic might not be 100% kosher. IBM have this thing where you are 'on the bench' when you are between projects. With the global downturn there was noone on the ballpark! There are people out there who are paid to contribute to the GPL. It was a nice thought though and I'll certainly check out the distro. Sir Bill Gates, I'm sure isn't that worried. His software ceased to be the reason for his continued surprising success years ago. Someone was talking about cars earlier - if you want something where you don't want to look under the hood get a Mac. If you want to get your hands dirty i.e. WORK there is a linux distro for your desired level of involvement. XP is simply not even in the same league as Panther. Not really a fair comparison, Macs have a superior architecture both hardware and software. Linux and Mac (or XP) is not a fair comparison either as they are not the same things like apples and oranges... or penguins? Apple and M$ have control of their hardware platform - Linux doesn't. Linux has to work with stuff designed for another OS. I don't think Linux will ever be the No.1 desktop because the days of the desktop are numbered and our interfaces are becoming smaller, larger and more ubiquitous, finding them in the oddest places like fridges and phones and boothes and 'Media Centres'. Linux is already a major player on mobile phones. Linux is a niche desktop market currently and I'm talking about desktops because I'm assuming this thread isn't for sysadmins. Windows is a goner, long term. Sir Bill has other fish to fry. But don't let me put you off - if you want Windows go get 'em! Just don't make Linux Windows. Why dumb it up? Why pander to stupidity and worse - laziness? Stupid we can deal with - 'no see the big glowing thing, no drool clogs that...' - with good documentation - with examples (and pictures). If you are too lazy to visit this forum (though some other thread perhaps) or as some so rudely put it - RTFM then I suggest Windows Windows Windows.

Again I respectfully won't dis doz users. One of my best and most respected friends opted to stay with it --cranking up the hardware to support its overhead. I just think it's a bit off to sell a pricey, closed source OS that NEEDS third party software help in at least ad/spy browser protection, virus protection and offers only a vulnerable e-mail client I don't like Red Hat reps actually being quoted as saying Linux is not going to be funded well enough to take off as a desktop OS and to actually suggest staying in doz. I have a rudimentary distro using KDE and I see enough potential for Linux to be with us in better and more secure, stable forms and always more efficient then doz.

like i say in the past, if you want an easy to use system, then make bash scripts or perl ones that do what you watn for you, then release them so others can try them and mybe they get put into a idiot distro (tehy should make a distro called idiot linux, just so people know who its for), unless you people who want it easyer go out and make it wayer yourself, it wont be the wany you want it, thats the good thing about linux, if you dont like somthing you can make it, or modify somthing simualr to suit your needs
this will get you started in source area:
http://www.strath.ac.uk/IT/Docs/Ccou...ntents3_1.html
http://www.cs.utah.edu/dept/old/texi...library_1.html

now teh optional ones
http://en.tldp.org/HOWTO/NCURSES-Programming-HOWTO/ --for terminal programs only that need to display a screen on formated text or such -- an example it text editors

http://www.xfree86.org/4.0/manindex3.html --the xf86 libary definitions so you can make GUI programs (i sugest you use gtk but i dont have a link for that -- the xf86 libs shouldent be used by most programs instead you another libary to use these, ie gtk

Big Blue Hat for people who don't know what ncurses or perl is and still want an alt for Windows.

- witeshark: how did your apps like moving from Mac 9 to 10?

hollerith: Mac OS X is my first Mac.

I will be talking to my computer teacher about this...

Yes it's really stupid to remove the terminal! If the admins can't prevent problems by setting user permissions, they must be idiots! Learning to use Unix in the terminal is at least 3/4's the point!!

The poll options were terrible. I'm a novice user at best when it comes to Linux but I don't think anything should be changed. Linux isn't hard, it's just different.

I've been using Linux for about 3 years now. A high school buddy turned me on to it and my Freshman year in college I bought my first distro - RedHat 6.1. Although it was a slightl outdated version, I believe 7.2 was current then, it worked just fine. In fact it came with three fantastic manuals - the Reference Guide, Getting Started Guide, and the Installation Guide.

The install was a breeze with the Installation Guide. Of course there were a few problems but nothing I would bother repeating. The Getting Started Guide is essentially a giant tutorial on how to use the OS. It's about 320 pages long and contained fantastic information. As a college student and part time employee I didn't have an abundance of time, but I had two hours at the end of three consecutive nights to finish off a few chapters in the book. In three days I was able to use RedHat!

I still keep those manuals on my bookshelf today.

As I said, Linux isn't hard it's just different. With that said it isn't for everyone either. I'm always confused with people talking about Linux becoming more mainstream and taking away more of the market share from Microsoft. What do I care if Linux becomes mainstream? Linux is the most efficient OS for me. It might not be best for you though.

I use a computer for email, surfing the web, and typing papers. Windows has Outlook, Internet Explorer, and Microsoft Office. Linux has Evolution, Firebird, and OpenOffice. It's all the same thing.

My ONLY complaint about RedHat now is when I ordered 8.0 I wasn't given the three manuals. Instead I was given a small book and the manuals on a CD. I would gladly pay the extra few books to have a print out version of the manuals. It just makes things easier.

Unix, Linux, Mac, Doz... agreed here, it's not hard, just different.

I must agree fully and completely

Quote:

I've been using Linux for about 3 years now. A high school buddy turned me on to it and my Freshman year in college I bought my first distro - RedHat 6.1. Although it was a slightl outdated version, I believe 7.2 was current then, it worked just fine. In fact it came with three fantastic manuals - the Reference Guide, Getting Started Guide, and the Installation Guide.

I believe that's the reason this site is here.........because people don't do what you did:

1) Buy the distro
2)Read the manual, since they got it for free

I have noticed that there are a lot of sites devoted to answering questions a good search term at Google would have solved (more quickly, at that), or the presence of documentation would have solved.
Of course you'd have to actually be willing to read it too!

In all fairness,though,most of the distros we newbies pick up don't have much documentation-though more of them are placing some on disk.My Red Hat 7.2 came in a "Red Hat for Dummies"book,and while it was helpful enough on install procedures it lacked all the command-line goodnes I desired to learn.Dummies indeed. The Mandrake guide was GUI user only(though it was quite helpful)and none of the distros I purchased online had any dead-tree manuals included(not that I expected any for $2.00 a disk! ).I would KILL for the manuals Jestah got with his version-if the 7.2 boxed set came with s much,i'm Ebay bound...
Speaking of Ebay,the 99 Cent online store there has copies of the now defunct Corel distro manual,with disk included inside.From what I can tell,it's Debian,but before Apt-get became standard.Looks like dpkg all the way-still,for 99 cents plus S&H,a great deal.Now for the time to read and practice....

I know my computer teacher is not an idiot, but he is also not a Unix guy...

order99: I'd love to know how your RH 7.2 finds the modem. Mine came with an O'Reilly book which is great, barring that it's only preparation for my modem install is to try it repeatedly.
hollerith: from what I have seen, OS 9 apps that refuse to run in OS X automatically start OS 9 within OS X. They included it in OS X and call it "classic"

Witeshark: I read something saying that they apples will soon not be shipping with OS9.. what will happen then, when these companies refuse to make software compatible on OSX..

Quote:

Witeshark: I read something saying that they apples will soon not be shipping with OS9.. what will happen then, when these companies refuse to make software compatible on OSX..

The first most likely case will be the companies that won't adjust to OS X will be displaced or replaced by a combination of Apple native and other software.