1. Windows is clearly superior on a desktop pc
2. After spending several months of using linux i just cant stand it anymore
3. it's impossible to get any work done on linux
4. i'm sick of spending hours configuring crap
5. im sick of apps not working or crashing
6. im sick of my perfectly fine Lexmark X73 not being supported my linux
(a possibly real complaint here)
7. im tired of the crashes when dialing my isp even windows 98 doesnt crash when i connect to the internet
8. i bought a exernal modem only for it to be defective
(defective hardware is Linux' fault?)
9. whats the point of a free os if you have to go out and waste money on modems and printers
(It's called proprietary hardware)
10. is linux free? heck no! is windows free? it came free with my pc
11. Truth is i have more freedom on windows than linux
12. everything works on windows

Who is bashing who, coppersky?

It is unfortunate DarkXtar has become frustrated and wants to drop Linux. It is however his choice. Not all the items he mentions are things anyone can fix.

It's too bad that linux users rather bash people for pointing out linux's deficiencies than try to help people with their linux problems if only my questions and others questions could have the response my linux gripe has gotten you might see more people sticking with linux.

DarkXtar, you came in swinging.
Seriously what did you expect?

As I already said. Good Luck.

Meh, I'm happy with linux, it's worked fine with my hardware, and had a few simple things I had to tweak to get it working fully. Cant wait til it's the same for everyone. Have fun with Windows.

Obviously this site is unmoderated and there seems to be is a tradition of name calling. I don't think DarkXtar is bashing anyone. I am certainly not. I have used Linux on the desktop for about two years. I suspect that is as long as most. I have no desire to go back.

That said, any reasoned examination of the state of Linux technology requires that we look at each of those 12 points in order.

1. I am not willing to say that Windows is superior to Linux on my desktop. Linux is more stable than Windows2000 pro (which I run on my office computer) when operating the applications I have personally configured for each.

2. I take it that is a result of the frustration inherent in using Linux. I have felt that myself.

3. I get work done on my LInux desktop all the time. I use the Microsoft Office equivalent software and it works.

4. Frankly, I am sick of spending hours configuring crap, too. RPM is supposed to be the answer to spending hours configuring crap. But, long ago I gave up using RPMs because that way lies disaster. Instead it is easier to do the job spending hours configuring crap. Perhaps if there were some agreed uniform installation software that worked we would all have more time for our children.

5. See 4 above. I have found that once an app is properly configured it usually works. One of the problems with Linux is that many of the apps are really little more that school projects. School projects blow up. The Linux community needs to do something more to attract more real software houses to Linux. That requires finding ways for software houses to make money.

6. I would be too if I spent money on a Lexmark X73. Maybe the community should support DarkXtar by writing Lexmark. Maybe 10,000 emails would get their attention.

7. Except for some fun times getting Mandrake 8.0 to recognize a USRobotics PCI hardmodem (which I overcame by reading the Mandrake support forum) I have never had problems with Linux and the internet. I have no idea what DarkXtar is talking about. Maybe we should ask and listen.

8. Again I have no idea what was wrong with his external modem. I seriously doubt it was damaged by Linux.

9. I have never considerred Linux free in the sense of not being paid for by somebody. Anyway Linux has pretty darn good hardware support, but there are always some manufacturers who don't want to provide drivers. There used to be a sort of clearing house for Linux drivers. I can't seem to find it anymore. Maybe you can tell me what happened to it. In any event, the Linux community would do well to insist on drivers. Maybe a hundred thousand emails would be better than 10,000.

10. Nothing is free, not even Linux. Somebody pays for it. The purpose of open source is not to give every user something for nothing. The purpose of open source is to provide a common non-proprietary software baseline.

11. The only meaning I can give to the 11th point is that more of his apps work right out the install in Windows than in Linux. That might be true in his case.

12. I have been running Windows for too long to accept that anyone believes number 12. If it is true that everything works in Windows, we should all abandon Linux and install Windows straight away.

coppersky

I'm not a 'guru', but I have managed to configure all my hardware under linux(with help from this board and other's). Including at one time a Lexmark printer( switched to hp when that printer died).
Has Linux ever frustrated me? Many times. It's also the thing's that frustrated me that have also made me the happiest. Solving the problem.
As far as I know, winmodems are made by microsoft. It's not Linux' fault that they don't work properly in Linux. Same with Lexmark printer's, if they don't release the info for the driver's or write the driver's for linux, how is that the fault of the Linux community?
If your unwilling to learn or solve problems, unplug your computer, pack it up, and send it back. Window's has just as many, if not more problems.
Good luck in your attempt's to find an 'easy, problem free' OS.

Great rebutal, coppersky.

I still think that at least half of his post is nothing but jabs at Linux (probably out of frustration), that do not really address a real point anyone can help with.

I still wish DarkXtar luck, he will feel better when he cools down.

Like you mentioned in a previous post, Linux isn't for everyone.
I do think that Linux is far superior to Windows in regards to the desktop experience. XFree Window Manager/Desktop Environments beat MS to a bloody pulp. The Explorer shell is ridiculously clumsy and and ugly to boot. My roommate was trying to tell me that he felt it was great. He could navigate through the shell adequately and perform any task he needed. When I asked what else he had to compare it to, I had him.... he had no experience with anything else.

We were all there.. it takes time. I've been doing this for years, have a reasonably intimate knowledge of the damn kernel and still get confused... but not as often...

God Bless Open Office...

This is a legitimate problem. It is getting better and quickly. Every new distro is attempting to create their own package management system. You are right though, everyone need to play nice, work together, and fix it. I'm a firm believer in compiling from source, but it's not for everyone.

A friend of mine who owns a local business asked me if he should use Linux to run the POS software since it has to work ALL the time. As much as it hurt, I had to recommend Win2000 because he need the software working now, didn't have time to learn something completely new, (I'm to expensive to keep on retainer ) and most importantly POS software in Linux is nowhere near up to par. If someone here knows where I can find some let me know please.

Although, with the increasing number of businesses and consumers using Linux, the quality of software and availability of software will increase. It'll just take time. We're almost there.

All right.. It's about time I got off my soapbox and went back to work.... Enjoy

[/RANT]

I haven't found anything insulting in this thread. Mostly out of frustrations, emotions flow and it can be "seen" from the other side. When I mentioned brain-damaged I put the (me) in there to make sure that people understood that I wasn't talking about YOU. OK....

I have enjoyed reading all of the posts up to now....I am a ripe three-week user of Linux. For a person who just wants to turn a computer on and have it run, Linux isn't there yet. But it's progression is accelerating. I am not one of those idiological Microsoft Haters....however, I do think that there should be alternatives.

I think Linux has a lot of potential. There are literally THOUSANDS of people working on code every day. I too, have just this week, dumped my MS Office 2000 for Open Office...I installed it on Windows! I was introduced to this through Linux. THERE ARE ALTERNATIVES and Microsoft will have to respond to this. There is no reason that 90% of computers should be Windows computers. I said there SHOULD be no reason. But there is. It's because of good marketing, agressive business practices, and hardly any competition. But that is coming to an end. I wouldn't buy Microsoft Stock right now.

Back to Linux...I am enjoying it. I still don't have a sound card working...everything else is fine. There just IS NOT a driver for it yet (it's an uncommon one). 10,000 letters is the way to go.

Given the RAPID improvement, Linux WILL BE a main contender out there. I don't blame anyone for getting frustrated and taking the easier way...there is WORK to do, and nobody but computer geeks want's to spend HOURS getting a piece of hardware of software working right. Maybe I am a little bit of a geek...I like the challenge, but that's not for everyone.

But it will be ready soon.....watch out Microsoft!

I have found almost everyone in the linux community very polite and helpful. It feels like a club. I like that. I wish people wouldn't take things so seriously...hey, we are talking about a computer here...not LIFE!

OK...now I'm done.

Thanks for listening

1. I wish you would come configure my Windows so that I can use it. I can't get any work done in Windows after spending countless hours searching for fixes. I have one that Explorer crashes when you hit the start button about 1 out of 10 times. I only have one windows box that my TV card will work on, but when I turn the computer off, the sound hangs in a loop. Fresh install, fully updated with latest drivers, constant crashes.

2. I install Linux, took a couple of months to get a handle on it and all my stuff configured (summer of '91, it was when more hand config was needed) and I have been working since.

I spend my computer playing time laughing at people who have experiences absolutely 180 degrees from mine and helping others wanting to get theirs to work now instead of rebooooooooot againandanaianadanain. .

Are you absolutely positive that you are running a flavor of Windows? Are you sure it's not a Mac OS? I have heard that it is stable.

Fancypiper, I'm not sure who that was directed to. If to me, there was a complete mis-understanding. I am using Windows XP which is quite stable...however has NOTHING on Linux in the stability area.

Get this story. My wife got a new laptop a couple of years ago and it came with Windows ME (ouch!). She was gone so I figured I'd fire it up and start configuring it for her. Two minutes. Well, I didn't time it, but it wasn't much more than that....CRASH. A complete LOCK-UP! OK....well, after about three more times, it stablized a little. Well, needless to say it's been a disaster. Now she works in Windows XP with much better results. But I JUST came to Linux THREE WEEKS AGO (Not counting playing with Knoppix for a while).

I am TOTALLY IMPRESSED! My machine has not locked up or crashed ONCE. It is as stable as stalbe can be. I'm talking about LInux here. Windows is better than it used to be, but it's still quite complex and confuses itself easily. But I wasn't trying to talk up Windows at all. I'm sick of it. I'm ready for a change and that's why I'm writing to you on Linux right now.

I liked OpenOffice so much that I put it on Windows ALSO...that way I don't have to use Microsoft TWICE in one session!

So, I was responding to the whole post. Linux is great...however I have a lot to learn...we are getting there.

But some people don't want to fool with it so much, and I understand that. Given just a little more time (and the new Kernel soon), Linux WILL TAKE OVER A large portion of the market.

The city of Munich just announced they are dumping Microsoft and putting ALL 14,000 computers on Linux. WOW..see? It's already happening. After a few more of those, the software companies will respond, the hardware companies will respond with GOOD drivers, and the whole computing map will change.

Microsoft's reign is coming to an end. Windows is NOT superior, and neither is Linux....just very different. But the BASIC ATTRIBUTES AND ARCHITECTURE of Linux are superior. With more development it will be VERY superior. But from the perspective or USER FRIENDLYNESS, Windows is still ahead in that department. I think THAT is what the original post person was talking about. Sheesh...he MUST be having crashes now and then....I'm still waiting for my first....but I know it will happen eventually.

Thanks for you comments....

I was responding to DarkXtar, I just met the thread.

I have a member of our band that runs Windows ME. I gave him a Knoppix CD and a GNU4Win CD but he hasn't tried them out yet.

I have some folk that I have given GNU4Win and all the ones that have used anything on it absolutely love Mozilla.

I have Windows 98SE on 2 boxen and linux is happy on both of them (once I found out about the AMD cpus and AGP bug), but Windows crashes regurlarly, constantly and differently on each one.

My conclusion: Windows 98 performed poorer than Windows 3.1, therefore it was time to stop throwing good money after bad.

Hi FancyPiper!

Thanks for your post. Yeah, I'm fixing Windows 98 machines all the time...not only are they unstable, but the installations are damaged easily. Windows ME was a disaster. Windows XP is based on the NT Kernel (also Windows 2000) and is much improved but really top-heavy.

I am dual booted with Windows XP, but am spending more and more time in Linux. All day today. Now I wish I divied up more space for my Linux installation....I'll have to see if I can do that.

I was introduced by my brother to Knoppix. I got the call: "hey, I found something really cool!" I still keep a current Knoppix CD handy so that I can show people what Linux looks like and feels like even on the work computers! So I got hooked really fast. Klaus Knopper is doing a real service to the community by working on the Koppix Disto. I went to Red Hat 9 and am very happy with it (every Distro has it's pluses and minuses).

I am using Mozilla in Windows now too....after trying a bunch of browsers. And just today I got the Blackdown Java installed and it's working great. See, I'm still learning the ropes. And I'm finding that it's not that hard. But some people give up because they don't want to really work at it at ALL. That's OK. You know, if you are lucky, Linux is easier than Windows considering that it loads all of the device drivers without any real intervention. A little tweaking here and there maybe and you're done!

Windows 3.1 was MUCH more stable than 95 or 98. It's still DOS. But the UNIX base is even much better than that.

Thanks for your comments. I wonder what happened to the DarkXtar? I hope that he's OK.

Once you've tried slack, you'll never go back, I have heard. Perhaps he is trying to disprove it?

I had a Microsoft product once that never crashed on me. It was a TRS-80 Model I Level II with Microsoft BASIC in ROM!

Man, I had lots of fun with that box.

Great! 3 weeks. I started out my Linux experience with Redhat 6.1 and almost everything except for the sound card and X had to be hand configured then. What headspinning days those were, but I was member number 573 on the origional linuxnewbie.org bbs so I had some good hand holding. That BBS was cool, then, now it's justlinux.com and has a much different flavor.

I installed RH9.0 on this box andin the mornings, it would be frozen up and I would have to use the power button. That happened 3 mornings in a row and it was updated with apt4rpm too.

I went back to RH7.3 and am probably going to replace this partition with some storage. I think I will migrate to Gentoo and drop RH.

I like the standard look of standard Gnome rather than what Redhat had, so I use Gentoo for my bleeding edge (and its pretty darn stable too) playing around distro just now.

I am also learning audio recording and editing in Mandrake 9.0 (didn't like 9.1) with the tools provided in Turn-Key Linux Audio.

Microsoft is for a couple of games (seldom played) and watching TV. As soon as I can, I am going to get a supported TV tuner card. Then, I will seriously consider booting Microsoft off unless I can get one box to run a couple of games I like without crashing all the time.

There is work on porting those games to Linux, though. America's Army and UT 2003 already scream in Gentoo better than in Windows.