Will I be the next to be banned from this forum?

Originally Posted by chrisretusn Sad, but understandable. Still have mixed feeling over this whole banning thing. Both of them contributed to Slackware.

I guess people in this thread still can not make the distinction between contributing to Slackware and participating on this forum.
I myself have received numerous warnings, from moderators and from Jeremy (the site owner), for breaking the site rules. That's how this is played. If you want total freedom to say what you want, to the extent of insult and harrassment of others on the forum, by all means use UseNet's a.o.l.s. group. The verbal abuse and total lack of respect for others was what caused me to stop participating in UseNet's alt.os.linux.slackware and join LinuxQuestions as a member in the first place.

You can be all you want elsewhere in this digital age, but if you participate on this forum, you need to abide to its rules. Nothing different from real life.

And for people who condemn this ban action because this would be the official Slackware forum and Darth & a4z have contributed good things here and to Slackware in general:
First of all, this is not an "official" forum. Pat is not running it, in fact he killed the official forum which was running on slackware.com because of the abuse. Over time, the LinuxQuestions forum became the "de facto" place to discuss the distribution, but that is not the same. Pat sanctioned it by mentioning it in the Slackware RELEASE_NOTES but there are other forums too, where you can discuss Slackware. And secondly, they could still contribute to Slackware outside of this forum. I do not see what one has to do with the other in terms of abandoning our distro.
My opinion is that a4z just needed an excuse to distance himself from Slackware finally. A shame really, because a4z did contribute some good stuff to Slackware. I am less comfortable with saying the same about Darth, because whatever he did with Slackware, he never fed back to Slackware as far as I am aware.
Still, I have never put either of these guys on my LQ ignore list. They may have been abrasive or insulting towards me at times, they were also participating in a good way on this forum. I have only one person on my ignore list, and he deserves it. He's posting to this thread too but I do not see the content of his posts.

The ban message for Darth and a4z is straightforward: they can contact a forum moderator and have their ban lifted. Quite simple, unless they really do not want to adhere to the LQ rules.

Originally Posted by Alien Bob I am less comfortable with saying the same about Darth, because whatever he did with Slackware, he never fed back to Slackware as far as I am aware.

bash-4.4# cat slackware64-current/ChangeLog.txt | grep Darth
  Thanks to Darth Vader.
  what's expected (thanks to Darth Vader for pointing out these patches). 
  compiled against openssl-1.1. Thanks to Darth Vader.
  Thanks to Darth Vader.
bash-4.4#

It is probably interesting to note that Darth Vader has two simultaneous jobs over the past six years, as far as I know.

He works 16 hours a day. I wonder how he had spare time to contribute something back.

On more than one occasion I have linked posts from LQ on irc to help explain a technical issue or related to users who have contributed to Slackware more than most people in this thread (Including myself) which led to them to notice the unrelated post(s) by Darth Vader. It never failed to lead to a conversation that started with "What's wrong with that guy?" and ended with "This is why I don't use forums.".

I had the privilege to talk with Darth Vader outside of LQ, and I never heard any criticism from him about someone in LQ.

If Mr. Didier Spaier wants to contact Darth Vader and inquire about his whereabouts, I can communicate him in a private message a Skype ID, with the note that Darth Vader was last present online on Skype by October 7, but not afterwards. If have any importance, that was 5 days before "justice was done."

For your amusement, let me quote one of Darth Vader's posts, which I think has been almost certainly reported as being questionable or insulting, considering his later comments in a private chat.

Originally Posted by Darth Vader Well, first of all, the SMP kernels form Slackware 32bit uses PAE, which essentially is the usage of a table with addresses of chunks of memory. This table permits to kernels to use up to 64GB memory instead of 4GB, but introduce some additional processing. Compared with the 32bit kernels and their PAE, the 64bit kernels use so called "linear addressing", then they does not need to translate and re-translate memory locations, via a whatever table of chunks. Then they are a bit faster. And another advantage is that they can use memory with size beyond 64GB. Not so important in the past, but today can happen your server to have 256GB memory and to have the need to use a 32bit operating system, because some proprietary application suite. BUT, that PAE v.s Linear does not explain the differences observed with the test program suggested by @a4z. Rather, it explains why our BDFL observes slightly better performances of 64bit OS on his benchmarks. What happens with this test program? For simplification, let's imagine that an "integer" could be defined by a number from 0000 to 9999 (4 decimal digits) and that a 32bit CPU register or a memory location can contain exactly that number with 4 digits. How you put 4 "integers" in memory, in this case? Sequentially. 1111 2222 3333 4444 Now, let's imagine that the 64bit has a double width, from 0000000 to 99999999, both as CPU registers, memory locations and "integers". How you put exactly these 4 "integers" in memory, in this case? Of course, sequentially. 00001111 00002222 00003333 00004444 You will observe that apparently the CPU do the same job but the length of data differ. And that apparently a part of memory bits is not used. Then, the brilliant minds behind compilers had an idea for static data: packing it to use the unused part when the records are smaller than registers width. It is about something like: 11112222 33334444 Obviously, writing and reading TWO memory locations is considerable faster than reading and writing FOUR. How in a 32bit operating system, the "integers" has 32bit length, when the kernel (and CPU) is 64bit, it is possible to use this records packing, resulting in a faster execution. Which programs benefits from this records packing? Any programs which does not intend to manipulate this data, just to load it and read it. For example, to compute a logarithmic sum of those integers. OR to load in memory tons of images, like Firefox do for its web-pages. OR even the compositing game done by a window manager, which is all about pixmaps put all the times back and forth. Long story short, some applications can heavily benefit from this combination of a 64bit kernel and a 32bit operating system.

That's a brilliant summary. Even I could understand it and I know next to nothing about processors.

You're keeping in step In the line Got your chin held high and you feel just fine Because you do What you're told

Hand That Feeds -- Nine Inch Nails:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwhBRJStz7w

Originally Posted by LuckyCyborg For your amusement, let me quote one of Darth Vader's posts, which I think has been almost certainly reported as being questionable or insulting, considering his later comments in a private chat.

By comparison a4z sounds like a lunatic in the subsequent post. He almost sounds like he needs help.

Sorry for the delay in replying... I was on a business trip and had limited time for regular forum visits.

Originally Posted by BattKajs Originally Posted by bassmadrigal But in reality, that responsibility does fall on you... not only in the forum, but in life. If you just hope that everyone around you will give you happy experiences, well, I wish I lived in that type of world. The fact is, we have no control over other people and only have control over ourselves and how we handle what's given to us. The best you can do is provide what you hope is all the information needed to help others figure out your problem. Of course that is a attitude that will leave you very sad in life, but my critique are against some individuals in the community that are not following a respectful discourse.

How is this an attitude that will leave me sad in life? When I know that I'm the one that is the only one who has control over how I react and feel about a subject, I am allowed to always lead a happy life... if I so choose. I tend to be an optimist, so that that works out great for me.

For a pessimist, it can be extremely difficult to make them happy, no matter the circumstances.

Originally Posted by BattKajs Originally Posted by bassmadrigal We, as regular forum members, can only change how we type our own posts. We have no control over other posts except to try and correct incorrect information or report them to the moderators. I like to think we have a pretty friendly forum, but out of all the many helpful responders we have here, there might be a few that respond with less-than-helpful responses... and I'm sure all of us have had off days and responded in a manner that we shouldn't have. We are all guilty to this, no one is perfect but we must try our best even if that won't leave a guarantee.

Yes, we should all try, but what about those that don't? Or what about those that you misinterpret their response to be an attack when it wasn't? You don't have control over what others post, only how you react.

Originally Posted by BattKajs Originally Posted by bassmadrigal Yes, you and others may become victims because of various forum members' responses, but it is up to you on how you take that response. Do you take it personal and get hurt? Do you ignore it and hope others have better responses? Do you try and clarify things because maybe that person misunderstood what you were trying to ask? There is a report option on the forum if you feel a reply went against forum rules, but otherwise, it is totally up to you on how to handle situations that you come across. This may sound bad, but ultimately it comes down to the fact that only you are in control of you and you need to be in charge of your emotions. (I still need a lot of work on this for myself.) Maybe it'd be worth checking out a blog entry by Tony Robins called Who is in charge of your emotions? NOTE: This in no way is an excuse for poor behavior on the forum. That should be reported so it can be dealt with by the people who are able to deal with them, but you are in control of your emotions (spoiler alert for the above article!). Of course people are responsible for their own emotions, you wouldn't be able to handle life if all let-downs would leave you destroyed. But this discussion is not about responsibility over feelings. This is a discussion is about the responsibility of actions. This is a problem on a macro-level not a micro-level. Posting rude or mean will force a judgement on a responsee which in essence is involuntary, since you cannot control what or who is posting, controlling this would be true censorship. Of course this will still occur and that's why we even have mods and a report-function. My suggestion was that instead of being toxic you should just be quiet and let other persons take the discussion or mods. Those who are motivated enough to give the community a chance will maybe block the bad elements. But a majority will not and this will kill a community, since new blood will never be added.

Yes, and the consequences of those actions have been discussed in this thread. But what you are saying is that it is the responsibility of the members and moderators of this forum to ensure you stay happy. That's false. It is the responsibility of the members to ensure they follow the rules and the responsibility of the moderators to ensure those rules are followed, but it is not their responsibility to ensure you have a happy experience on this forum.

But what I'm not saying is that "people need to just ignore bad elements". That is why the report button exists. Moderators likely don't read every single post on this forum, and it is up to members to report posts that violate forum rules. If you violate the rules, you can be warned and/or banned. As we have found out, if you violate the rules enough times, it can lead to a permanent ban.

Originally Posted by LuckyCyborg bash-4.4# cat slackware64-current/ChangeLog.txt | grep Darth Thanks to Darth Vader. what's expected (thanks to Darth Vader for pointing out these patches). compiled against openssl-1.1. Thanks to Darth Vader. Thanks to Darth Vader. bash-4.4# It is probably interesting to note that Darth Vader has two simultaneous jobs over the past six years, as far as I know. He works 16 hours a day. I wonder how he had spare time to contribute something back.

Should I feel sorry for him now? I believe that story if I hear it from the guy himself.
I work more than 16 hours per day, and more than 7 of those are spent on Slackware. The Slackware hours do not pay. I do this as a give-back to what Slackware means to me personally.

I do not think it is fair to compare an American or a Dutch with a Romanian as financial performances.

I understand that in Romania the average salary is around EUR 300. How much can Darth Vader earn in average at two jobs? EUR 600?

If you should work for money in two jobs, I think you would contribute to Slackware as much as he did. After all, one day have only 24 hours.

Originally Posted by LuckyCyborg It is probably interesting to note that Darth Vader has two simultaneous jobs over the past six years, as far as I know. He works 16 hours a day. I wonder how he had spare time to contribute something back.

Hi Darth/Lucky.

Darth Vader resolved the issues regarding live-DVDs since 2008 for his Linux distribution.

https://www.linux.com/news/well-appo...-has-dark-side

According to this article, DARKSTAR's last release, v2008.1 was a live-DVD with a graphical installer.

However, LuckyCyborg on August 8 2018 needed help for running Slackware with /usr put in a read-only squashfs.

https://www.linuxquestions.org/quest...fs-4175635655/

I think the skills of the two individuals differs considerably.

Originally Posted by ZhaoLin1457 I do not think it is fair to compare an American or a Dutch with a Romanian as financial performances. I understand that in Romania the average salary is around EUR 300. How much can Darth Vader earn in average at two jobs? EUR 600?

Where does the amount of pay come into play? It is also vastly different living costs in America, Netherlands, and Romania.

If the average salary is 300EUR, and Darth was working two jobs, then does that mean he was making double what the average person there does? And that he might be making double the equivalent of someone working in a different country with a different cost of living?

Originally Posted by ZhaoLin1457 If you should work for money in two jobs, I think you would contribute to Slackware as much as he did. After all, one day have only 24 hours.

Did you actually look at those contributions? Two were for kernel option changes, one was for asking for php v5 once php was upgraded to v7 (which php5 was then put into pasture), and the final one was for pointing out patches for xorg.

Now, that doesn't take into account the help he's provided on this forum, any testing he's done at home, nor changes that were made due to his pestering suggestions. But as far as I know, he didn't maintain any SlackBuild scripts, online repos, documentation, etc. Eric provides all of that, plus all his contributions to Slackware that aren't even mentioned (just like many of Robby's). Have you ever tried to provide an online repo of Slackware packages? And maintain all the scripts to build those packages? And multilib/compat32 packages? And ktown? And maintain a presence on the forum? And post an online blog of updates while frequenting the comments?

You really shouldn't try and compare Darth to Eric. Even with an "excuse" of working two jobs, there really is no valid comparison with how little Darth (and the majority of us -- this isn't a slam against Darth, but rather showing how much Eric does in comparison to almost any one else) provided compared to Eric. There's a reason that Eric and Robby are a part of the core dev team and when you're a part of the core dev team, you usually aren't credited with your work on Slackware.

Excuse me, but I only compare the time used to maintain a certain living standard.

I do not know the life issues of Darth Vader or alienBOB. I also do not know how much they earns or their living standards.

But I understand that Darth Vader needs to dedicate 16 hours a day to earn money, which definitely limits the time he can dedicate to, let's say "hobbies" that do not bring a certain income.

TBH, I worked 6 months with two full jobs and I know it's a really unhealthy rhythm. You only have 8 hours to shop, to eat, to sleep, to have some social or family life. I gave up after 6 months.

I have all the respect for those who can keep this pace one way or the other. I could not.

Originally Posted by ZhaoLin1457 Excuse me, but I only compare the time used to maintain a certain living standard. I do not know the life issues of Darth Vader or alienBOB. I also do not know how much they earns or their living standards. But I understand that Darth Vader needs to dedicate 16 hours a day to earn money, which definitely limits the time he can dedicate to, let's say "hobbies" that do not bring a certain income. TBH, I worked 6 months with two full jobs and I know it's a really unhealthy rhythm. You only have 8 hours to shop, to eat, to sleep, to have some social or family life. I gave up after 6 months. I have all the respect for those who can keep this pace one way or the other. I could not.

Getting way off topic, first we do not know any of the above, because Darth did not say it. It was posted third person by someone claiming to have heard it from Darth. Even if it were true, he was on the LQ forum and in particular the Slackware sub thread often, daily, many posts daily. So the time factor was moot at best.